Farm Solar Scam

[jazz]

Haha, 25 yr payback? Guys admits his pet virtue project hasn't even recouped half of its installation value after 12 yrs. 1% efficiency loss per year. Probably never pay itself off. Even replaced with the most cutting edge tech would still require 12 yr to pay it back.

$17,000 thrown right down the hole. $17,000 invested in the S&P 500 would be worth almost $50k now.

What a crock this whole green energy scam is. Doesn't work at any at scale. Just a big guilt project.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Chuck, any comments on the rolling blackouts California is enjoying during this heat wave?
It just doesn't make sense does it, since solar is a great fit in climates requiring AC, yet at 6:30 PM, till 10:00 they are blackouts, to prevent "risk ‘collapse of the entire system of California and perhaps the entire West."

Couldn't be related to the time of day when the sun predictably goes down could it?

What progress humanity has made, can't even run AC or use lights in the year 2020.

[fjlip]

One of the three biggest SCAMS, Virus, Climate Apocalypse, Green shift(shit)...

[Oliver88]

Summary of solar power:
-Unreliable
-Expensive, brings cost up in grid
-Leads to periods of no electricity
-Used panels are very hazardous to the environment

[furrowtickler]

Say it isn’t so 🤦🏻*♂️

[chuckChuck]

So do we know the entire story in California? Or are we going to put the entire blame on solar? California had trouble with power supply in 2001 before solar became a significant source. We have already heard from Australia that they can manage up to 70% of their supply from renewables so perhaps there are management issues in California? But don't let the facts get in the way of blaming solar for "everything" LOL

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-california-could-see-more-rolling-outages-amid-heat-wave-2/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-california-could-see-more-rolling-outages-amid-heat-wave-2/

"The last time the state ordered rolling outages was during an energy crisis in 2001. Blackouts occurred several times from January to May, including one that affected more than 1.5 million customers. The cause was a combination of energy shortages and market manipulation by energy wholesalers, infamously including Enron Corp., that drove up prices by withholding supplies."

In 2001 it was all solar's fault? right A5? LMAO

[chuckChuck]

ISO requested power outages following Stage 3 Emergency declaration; system now being restored FOLSOM, Calif. –The California Independent System Operator (ISO) declared a Stage 3 Electrical Emergencyat 6:28 p.m. on Saturday, Aug. 15, due to increased electricity demand,the unexpected loss of a 470-megawatt (MW) power plant,and loss of nearly 1,000 MWof wind power.The load was ordered back online 20 minutes later at 6:48 p.m.,as wind resources increased. A Stage 3 Emergency is declared when demand begins to outpace available supply, and grid operators need to tap electricity reserves to balancethe grid. Rotating power interruptionsof about 470 MWwereinitiated across the state.Extreme heat throughout the West has increased electricity usage, causing a strain on the power grid. All available resources are needed to meet the growing demand. The California ISO is working closely with California utilities and neighboring power systems to manage strain on the grid and to restore the power grid to full capacity. As portions of the grid are restored, local utilities will restore power in a coordinated fashion. Although a Stage 3 Emergency is a significant inconvenience to those affected by rotating power interruptions, it is preferable to manage an emergency with controlled measures rather than let it cause widespreadand more prolonged disruption.Click hereto learn more about System Alerts, Warnings, andEmergencies.

[chuckChuck]

From the NY Times

Rolling Blackouts in California Have Power Experts Stumped

Managers of the electric system argue that a lack of power prompted the decision to enact blackouts, though demand this weekend fell short of the state’s peak years.

By Ivan Penn, Aug. 16, 2020

As temperatures began to rise in California on Friday and again on Saturday, the manager of much of the state’s electric grid called on utilities to cut power to hundreds of thousands of customers.

But the rolling blackouts on those days left some of the state’s energy experts bewildered. They said that the utilities had plenty of power available and that the blackouts weren’t necessary. The grid’s capacity may be tested in coming days as temperatures are forecast to reach into the triple digits again in some places.

“They set it up like this is a historic event,” said Bill Powers, a San Diego engineer who provides expert testimony on utility matters before the state’s regulators. “This should not have triggered blackouts.”

The California Independent System Operator, the nonprofit entity that controls the flow of electricity for 80 percent of California, said it acted after three power plants shut down and wind power production dropped. It also cited a lack of access to electricity from out-of-state sources.

“We understand rolling outages are not easy, and we do everything we can to avoid them,” said Anne Gonzales, a spokeswoman for California ISO. “The reason for the energy shortfall is high heat and people naturally wanting to stay cool.”

The sweltering weather has smothered California, while wildfire season has started earlier than usual.

The energy experts noted that the peak electricity use over the weekend fell below peaks in other years, when utilities were able to handle the demand. They also said the operating reserves of power available to the utilities were higher than the 3 percent level where California ISO has traditionally ordered a reduction in electricity use.

The first rolling blackouts this time occurred on Friday, as temperatures reached 10 to 20 degrees above normal in California and other parts of the West. At 6:36 p.m., California ISO ordered its “Stage 3” action, where the utilities that are part of its electric grid network — primarily California’s three investor-owned power providers, Pacific Gas & Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric — cut power to some customers.

On Saturday, as temperatures returned to triple digits, the grid operator again began its emergency procedures.

The first-stage alert began at 6 p.m., when California ISO’s operating reserves stood at 12 percent, said David Marcus, an energy consultant and former adviser at the California Energy Commission. Its standard for the first stage had been 8 percent, according to the grid operator’s 2019 resource assessment.

The second stage began at 6:25 p.m., when its operating reserves stood at 9.59 percent, Mr. Marcus said. California ISO listed that stage in its assessment at 6 percent.

The final stage, 3, the rolling blackouts, began at 6:30 p.m., when operating reserves dipped to 8.9 percent but still above the 3 percent level that the operator listed last year, Mr. Marcus said.

“It’s just misleading to say that it was because it was a hot day,” Mr. Marcus said. “I think they were being overly cautious.”

Saturday’s peak demand, according to Mr. Marcus, reached 44,947 megawatts, much lower than the 46,797 he saw on Friday. But both of those amounts fell below the peak year for electricity use, 2006, when demand reached 50,270 megawatts, followed by 2017 with 50,116, according to data from California ISO.

As California ISO began taking its emergency actions on Saturday, electricity wholesale costs jumped on its energy market. The prices fluctuate based on how much electricity must pass through the wires. The more electricity that must get through a particular line, the higher the price, much like increased toll prices on a highway during traffic congestion.

Prices in locations near the Tahoe area across the state line to Reno and Carson City, Nev., spiked into the thousands of dollars per megawatt-hour, far above the typical costs of under $100.

Ms. Gonzales said the electric grid manager did not have an immediate response to questions about the energy prices because officials were responding to the emergency.

“But the ISO isn’t saying it’s congestion,” said Loretta Lynch, a former president of the California Public Utilities Commission. “They’re not saying a wire got burned down. It’s saying it’s a lack of power.”

In particular, California ISO said two natural gas power plants shut down on Friday and, on Saturday, a wind farm and another gas plant stopped producing power.

The state is currently reviewing proposals to extend the operation of old natural gas plants in Southern California. Environmentalists want the plants to remain closed because they use fossil fuels and are cooled using seawater, endangering marine life.

“It makes for a compelling story” if you have blackouts because of a lack of power plants, Mr. Powers said. “We know there is no capacity problem,” he said. “Something odd happened.”

What happens in the days ahead will continue to test Californians and the electric grid as California ISO forecast electricity demand Monday at near all-time peak levels.

“If there’s really a problem and not just the ISO jumping the gun, it’s going to manifest tomorrow,” Mr. Marcus said. “Tomorrow evening, the wolf arrives.”

Ivan Penn is a Los Angeles-based reporter covering alternative energy. Before coming to The Times in 2018 he covered utility and energy issues at The Tampa Bay Times and The Los Angeles Times. @ivanlpenn

[TASFarms]

Does California still have a day ahead futures market? If so there lies the problem.

[chuckChuck]

Its a deregulated market but not sure.

[blackpowder]

Can anyone find a NY Times or Globe and Mail article that can explain why I should take money costing me 4.5% and invest a larger sum in a 25 yr project just to break even? What's the FV of $15k after 30 years?
It's a prestige product.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Thanks for finding an expert to explain it Chuck.
"Expert stumped"
Having admitted defeat at explaining the laws of physics to you, I will move on to a simpler set of laws, the laws of holes, perhaps you will find them more intuitive.

The first law of holes states
"If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging"
You have been calling on the infallibility of experts all this time, perhaps it would have been better to just stay out of this one, than to quote an "expert" who can't figure out why an electrical grid which has removed fossil fuel powerplants, then replaced them with 19% solar, would result in generation shortages when the sun starts setting.
Perhaps you should have found one of the multitude of experts who have been warning California that this was inevitable, And that it will only get worse With more natural gas and nuclear plants scheduled to be decommissioned.

[chuckChuck]

3 electricity plants shut down and imports from other states weren’t available
but it is still all the fault of solar? LMAO. Apparently you know more than the California Operator!
From the alleged “engineer” who said “carbon is just soot”.

[furrowtickler]

Thanks for finding an expert to explain it Chuck.
"Expert stumped"
Having admitted defeat at explaining the laws of physics to you, I will move on to a simpler set of laws, the laws of holes, perhaps you will find them more intuitive.

The first law of holes states
"If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging"
You have been calling on the infallibility of experts all this time, perhaps it would have been better to just stay out of this one, than to quote an "expert" who can't figure out why an electrical grid which has removed fossil fuel powerplants, then replaced them with 19% solar, would result in generation shortages when the sun starts setting.
Perhaps you should have found one of the multitude of experts who have been warning California that this was inevitable, And that it will only get worse With more natural gas and nuclear plants scheduled to be decommissioned.

Incapable of original thought , it happens in far left socialism .

[Braveheart]

3 electricity plants shut down and imports from other states weren’t available
but it is still all the fault of solar? LMAO. Apparently you know more than the California Operator!
From the alleged “engineer” who said “carbon is just soot”.

So now I'm a soot based life form. Who knew