What will we do for Carbon , for life and plant growth?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Professional lobbyist actually But don't tell anyone.

On whose side...

[AlbertaFarmer5]

A5, are you sure you are a farmer and not a fisher? Because you sure seem to come up with a lot of red herrings!

Chuck, I am so relieved that you were still able to make an intellectual contribution to this thread. I was worried that when we started using big words and technical terms that you might think it was above your pay grade and you would be too ashamed of your lack of knowledge and compehension of the issue, to have anything meaningful and relevant to add, and therefore refrain from embarassing yourself with further posts.

And in this era of inclusiveness, it would have been a shame if you felt excluded from the conversation just because you didn't know anything about the subject. That should never be a reason to keep quiet, it is always better to open your mouth ( or your keyboard) and remove all doubt as they say. Why, just the other day, the guys were sitting around discussing hockey, or Curling, or some winter type sport, and I wanted to feel like I fit in, so I chimed in that I think Expo's will go all the way to the Super Bowl this year.

But thanks to your post, and caseIH's research, I learned what a fisher is.

[chuckChuck]

We are still waiting for the science to support your red herring A5!

I think its going to be a long wait. Maybe we will get it when hell freezes over?

Without enough CO2 do you think hell would freeze over A5? LOL

[tweety]

On whose side...

The side of money. And the only way to do that is have the rules in your favor.

The red herring, that is pretty funny.

With the release of more CO2 comes the more violent weather extremes. Those losses are much higher then the issue of CO2. ppm

[AlbertaFarmer5]

The side of money. And the only way to do that is have the rules in your favor.

The red herring, that is pretty funny.

With the release of more CO2 comes the more violent weather extremes. Those losses are much higher then the issue of CO2. ppm

Can you provide some evidence of the violent weather extremes increasing. And the associated crop losses? Where are yields declining?

I hope you can do better than Chuck on this question, since he has failed completely to prove either in the past.

Why not respond to my previous post about yield loss due to declining CO2. Where do you propose we find 3 more Canada's to make up for the loss. Actually much more than 3, considering most of Canada's farm land is semi arid with only 1 ( or less) crop per year. Much lower yields than all of Europe, US, South America etc.

[chuckChuck]

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab154b/pdf https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab154b/pdf

The effects of climate extremes on global agricultural yields

Abstract
Climate extremes, such as droughts or heat waves, can lead to harvest failures and threaten thelivelihoods of agricultural producers and the food security of communities worldwide. Improving ourunderstanding of their impacts on crop yields is crucial to enhance the resilience of the global foodsystem. This study analyses, to our knowledge for thefirst time, the impacts of climate extremes onyield anomalies of maize, soybeans, rice and spring wheat at the global scale using sub-national yielddata and applying a machine-learning algorithm. Wefind that growing season climate factors—including mean climate as well as climate extremes—explain 20%–49% of the variance of yieldanomalies(the range describes the differences between crop types), with 18%–43% of the explainedvariance attributable to climate extremes, depending on crop type. Temperature-related extremesshow a stronger association with yield anomalies than precipitation-related factors, while irrigationpartly mitigates negative effects of high temperature extremes. We developed a composite indicator toidentify hotspot regions that are critical for global production and particularly susceptible to the effectsof climate extremes. These regions include North America for maize, spring wheat and soyproduction, Asia in the case of maize and rice production as well as Europe for spring wheatproduction. Our study highlights the importance of considering climate extremes for agriculturalpredictions and adaptation planning and provides an overview of critical regions that are mostsusceptible to variations in growing season climate and climate extremes.1. Introduction Different types of climate extremes are projected tointensify and become more frequent in a number of regions worldwide due to climate change(IPCC2012).Extreme events, such as droughts and heat waves, can adversely impact agricultural production and haveimplications for the livelihoods and food security ofcommunities. Not only regions immediately experien-cing the extreme event are affected, but also regions in other parts of the world, which may suffer from indirect consequences such as.....

Climate change is affecting crop yields and reducing global food supplies

https://theconversation.com/climate-change-is-affecting-crop-yields-and-reducing-global-food-supplies-118897 https://theconversation.com/climate-change-is-affecting-crop-yields-and-reducing-global-food-supplies-118897

[Guest]

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab154b/pdf https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab154b/pdf

The effects of climate extremes on global agricultural yields

Abstract
Climate extremes, such as droughts or heat waves, can lead to harvest failures and threaten thelivelihoods of agricultural producers and the food security of communities worldwide. Improving ourunderstanding of their impacts on crop yields is crucial to enhance the resilience of the global foodsystem. This study analyses, to our knowledge for thefirst time, the impacts of climate extremes onyield anomalies of maize, soybeans, rice and spring wheat at the global scale using sub-national yielddata and applying a machine-learning algorithm. Wefind that growing season climate factors—including mean climate as well as climate extremes—explain 20%–49% of the variance of yieldanomalies(the range describes the differences between crop types), with 18%–43% of the explainedvariance attributable to climate extremes, depending on crop type. Temperature-related extremesshow a stronger association with yield anomalies than precipitation-related factors, while irrigationpartly mitigates negative effects of high temperature extremes. We developed a composite indicator toidentify hotspot regions that are critical for global production and particularly susceptible to the effectsof climate extremes. These regions include North America for maize, spring wheat and soyproduction, Asia in the case of maize and rice production as well as Europe for spring wheatproduction. Our study highlights the importance of considering climate extremes for agriculturalpredictions and adaptation planning and provides an overview of critical regions that are mostsusceptible to variations in growing season climate and climate extremes.1. Introduction Different types of climate extremes are projected tointensify and become more frequent in a number of regions worldwide due to climate change(IPCC2012).Extreme events, such as droughts and heat waves, can adversely impact agricultural production and haveimplications for the livelihoods and food security ofcommunities. Not only regions immediately experien-cing the extreme event are affected, but also regions in other parts of the world, which may suffer from indirect consequences such as.....

Climate change is affecting crop yields and reducing global food supplies

https://theconversation.com/climate-change-is-affecting-crop-yields-and-reducing-global-food-supplies-118897 https://theconversation.com/climate-change-is-affecting-crop-yields-and-reducing-global-food-supplies-118897

good , maybe we will get paid for our work , too f-kn much now anyways
maybe we will get more that 2 weeks summer , its all good, hope you're right

[tweety]

Can you provide some evidence of the violent weather extremes increasing. And the associated crop losses? Where are yields declining?

I hope you can do better than Chuck on this question, since he has failed completely to prove either in the past.

Why not respond to my previous post about yield loss due to declining CO2. Where do you propose we find 3 more Canada's to make up for the loss. Actually much more than 3, considering most of Canada's farm land is semi arid with only 1 ( or less) crop per year. Much lower yields than all of Europe, US, South America etc.

As CO2 increases weather changes and more violent swings. You already know that. And its not 3 more Canada's, it is at worst a few percent 100 years from now. And again, CO2 is the least of the problems with food production without fossil fuels.

Here is the solution to your non existent problem. Hybrid Rubisco, very recent discovery. It's like putting a turbo on crops such as wheat especially. It would be a disaster for farmers to ever have supply less then demand, just think of the income tax you would have to pay. So keep growing more and more and more.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200915090123.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200915090123.htm

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Thanks for getting back on topic Chuck, after 8 irrelevant posts about fish and small mammals etc. I thought you weren't coming back.

You are aware that the trend in yields is still positive? Do you think that if one requires machine learning to try to pick out yield changes due to weather anomalies, because they don't reveal themselves in any other statistics, that perhaps there might be a better reason?

I was reading some intersting papers this morning, including this one:
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rstb.2010.0153 https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rstb.2010.0153

Experimental evidence indicates that we can expect an average of 13% increase in yield by 2050 due entirely to predicted CO2 increasing to 550 ppm.

[chuckChuck]

High CO2 levels cause plants to thicken their leaves, which could worsen climate change effects, researchers say

https://www.washington.edu/news/2018/10/01/thick-leaves-high-co2/ https://www.washington.edu/news/2018/10/01/thick-leaves-high-co2/

Some more science to ponder.

[tweety]

AF5, you said we need 3 Canada's to compensate for a few percent in yield loss to a return of pre industrial CO2 levels. Your curves certainly do not show this at all. Please explain.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

AF5, you said we need 3 Canada's to compensate for a few percent in yield loss to a return of pre industrial CO2 levels. Your curves certainly do not show this at all. Please explain.

I used your figures from the previous page.

Well it does, but at pre industrial levels it is about 95% and today about 103%.

Admittedly, I did not check your work. I presume you did as I suggested and plotted the yield inreases rom the studies onto the logarithmic graph provided, and extrapolated yields at pre industrial levels. Is that how you arrived at the 8% reduction?

According to the link I posted with data from FAO, Canada is in 7th place in the world, at 2.64% of the worlds arable land. I performed the mathematical wizardry of 8% / 2.64% and arrived at 3 Canada's to make up the 8% shortfall from your figures.