Calgary Herald: Wheat board doomed without monopoly

[boone]

AdamSmith: Maybe your idea of free will is being allowed to choose " Blindfold On or Blindfold Off" either way it's the same result, just an illusion of meaningful choice.
Tom4cwb: I've been troubled over the non-tariffed values as well, but on the other side in a temporary developement situation, the extra costs are also accrued to the pool.( not always a success) But as it becomes a general product it should stand alone, good or bad.

[TOM4CWB]

Boone;

After dealing with Cargill for years...

On CWB wheat/feed barley, On Canola, Feed barley, Feed wheat, Peas

They respect my right to exist and make a profit.

I respect Cargill's right to exist, and make a profit.

Choice has made Cargill a profit... the CWB has made a profit for them (more profit than non-board)... in the experience of our farm.

Strong well financed grain buyers... are an asset to my farm... as they are to all farms in western Canada.

Fear of the unknown has never stopped the wise person from planning for a strong farm, a strong community, a future with prosperity.

THose who fear the roar of a lion... will soon serve that lion.

Boone, what are you hearing?
Who do you want to serve?

[boone]

Tom4cwb: The wheat board has protected and carried the bottom line of every grain buyer without exception, cheques always cash, storage is an industry unto itself. But and this is a big one here, when it is gone the thrashing around you will see, will be small players trying to get to the edge of the lake before the deeppocketed ocean liners run them in two. Each and every manager of Cargill is gold, they have to be to balance the interest of a multinational that sets policy, based on their best interests, and the need to get a customer through the door to start the wheels of profit. Make no mistake here, those managers will bend to their masters at will. And you will be alone, r-_-d, and freezing. Take a trip, south of the line and ask around. They actually joke about it like it is their lot in life.

[AdamSmith]

boone; not trying to sound agumentative here but since you believe that an open market will only provide an "illusion" of free choice.

I would be interested to know, in your opinion, the characteristics needed to to offer real and meaningful market choice.

Thanks

[boone]

AdamSmith: Well for starters, all varieties of grain should be offered up to growers big and small in a general allocation, to any and all producers, proprietary and publicly held. Enforced by law, not oh yea, Wink knod,Wink knod! You will understand soon enough why. And let us do as the ahmericons do, with forcing every transaction domestic mill or export, across an exchange,Full Disclosure. Know that term, there will be a test later. With these simple requests everyone will have a chance to survive, with or without a CWB.

[charliep]

Boone

Just a question as to if there are differences in barley (both feed and malt)and wheat in the question of moving to an open market? My thoughts there are lots of players in the barley market so your issues about multi nationals/concentration would not be the same.

[AdamSmith]

boone;

I'm absolutly in favour of "full disclosure" it's the one meaningful component lacking in our system, both board and non board. Weather all transaction need to flow through an exchange, I'm not sure about, although it does make the process more accountable. So we agree here.

With respect to your first point, I think we agree here as well. Much has been made about niche marketing and variety specific opportunities. I, like you, think these are grand schemes designed to hold growers captive. But I guess I believe this will sort itself out as growers realize that their best opportunites occur when they hold uncommited grain.

I don't think we need regulation to protect farmers from themselves and their poor decisions.

and charlie; Moving barley to an open market will be a seamless operation. Wheat will be different. Many new opportunities will be available and some will offer promise while others will lead nowhere, it will take a bit more time with wheat. For starters this part of the country has no current history in establishing a real world value for the many different types of wheat. For instance what is the real value of winter wheat grown on the prairies? I know it's not the CWB's arbitrarily discounted price. It will take a bit of time for these things to sort themselves out. This will be the biggest hurdle for wheat.

[charliep]

Just a note to both is that you are both indicating the commodity world is the only place to live in. My observation is that where agriculture needs to be headed is more quality and trait specific markets. This requires a different type of thinking than today. A part of this means identifying business partners.

[boone]

AdamSmith,Charliep: Well looks like we do put our pants on the same after all!
I think if you look back to what flushed AnhBusche, up here in the first place,to Alberta pool etc. gathering group,1) consistent quality 2)american farm program treated other crops better before decoupling (remember that wonderful time) read as no incentive and them damn canudians are undercutting our prices. Anyway they stepped away, we pursued it with vigor.
My expectations are without one seller (you pick one) we will have malt prices that reflect feed, and guess what? We will absorb the price of planting-to-pint quality control. All under the guize of food security. Brought to you by your friendly neighbourhood representative of Tom Ridge.(food spook USA)
As for wheat yes winter wheat will average up and Hard spring will average down. Not everyday just enough to hurt. IMHO

[AdamSmith]

charlie;

I'm not suggesting quality and trait specific marketing doesn't offer opportunities, but I think we must be aware there is a downside to putting all your eggs in that basket. My experiences with these programs are that unless your sample meets 100% of the requirements the discounts start kiking in big time and at the end of the day the grower is seldom ahead much anyway.

The bulk commodity system has one huge advantage over other more quality specific systems, and that's the ability to blend.

Without blending, lesser quality grain can become next to worthless and all that may be gained with three or four years of meeting spec and cashing in on the available premiums can be wiped out with one poor quality crop.

Build a system that is designed to handle 80% of the crop in the bulk system and 20% in trait specific and that works. Build a system to handle 20% bulk and 80% trait specific and that is a recipe for big trouble and a lot of headaches.

[Incognito]

Looks like i picked a bad day to go to Winnipeg and miss the discussions here; CWB initials raised and canola up another 10 cents. Life is better today.


Add another point into the round table here:

What companies can afford to add billions of dollars of credit risk to their balance sheet?

You won't see any Canadian entities on that list and that scares the daylights outta me and most Canadian banks.

[Incognito]

Comatose....lol

I went to Edmonton, not Winnipeg.

[boone]

incognito: No harm done, we were having a love in!

[rodb]

Adamsmith
The first IP producers were the certified seed growers. The good ones have made a very good living and the poor ones went back to growing commodities or out of farming altogether. The way to make a go off it is to offer a product that has higher intrinsic value, whether that is through IP or some other form. Commodity pricing is going to provide subsistence levels at best as we will never be the low cost producers.

We need to develope value chains that let us have the ability to access those premium prices with out the discounts when product does not meet spec. The other thing to look at, is the discount worse than the commodity market price? If it isn't you have still got paid a little better for the extra work it took to try and meet the quality standards of the program.

The CWB needs to think more about value chains and the producer. The old grow it and they will buy it is long gone as technology has replaced the need for all the HRS high protein that we grow. They need to work with producers and end users to build value chains not stand and say I can't compete.

[boone]

Post: just reread these strings and was greatly encouraged, I think it has reached a point of understanding. One thing I'd like to add. If the board will keep moving ahead at what must be breakneck speed for the statisticians in the group, I think we are going to make it. Now the next thing I would like to say is the term (food spook) is copyrighted from here after so since Dunn and Bradstreet took the time to call today to do a check on me, I would encourage any one that uses it to send .25 cents to my widows and orphans fund c/o Agri-ville. (just kidding) but remember if you don't hear from me I was never here. Have a great summer, if we don't cross, type again. For I feel a chill coming on!