Ford Canada, Unifor reach tentative deal that includes $2B in EV contracts

[tweety]

The fact of the matter Chuck the article states that the number of people employed at the plant will go from 4250 to 3000. You were talking up new jobs building EV’s, well it looks to me like less jobs, the only thing I can conclude is that in your world a robot is an employee!!

Most of that is because you don't need as many people to work on a battery and electric motor. No emissions department, no cooling system department, no exhaust department, no oil management department, no fluids level dipstick department, no....

The Chevy Volt has 24 moving parts, the VW Golf has 149. So yes, that takes a lot less people.

The less people doesn't stop there. Less rig pigs, truckers, refinery operators, pipeline dudes, truckers, water trucks dumping sludge, fuel delivery, gas station attendants, gas pump design/installation/maintenance.

Instead you have a panel and a quick charge plug. It costs about 1/3 in electricity today vs the same km in petrol.

[jazz]

Too bad the world couldnt be powered on your feelings and misconceptions.

But in reality mathematics is the master and this is why renewables will never be more than a curiosity.

https://economics21.org/inconvenient-realities-new-energy-economy Inconvenient Energy Realities

Renewables will never power it, our installed generation is a fraction of what is needed to even start down this path and our current grid would need an entire overhaul to deliver it. 3 teslas taking 2 days to charge on a street would kick out the grid to brownouts and blackouts. Period.

There is nothing else to talk about until CANDUs get installed in every city. But dream on.

[chuckChuck]

Jazz, you better call Ford and tell them to stop making the F150 and and all the other EVs cause its not going to work! Doug Ford don't sign that deal! LMAO

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Probably because not much will be manufactured here, all major componenents will be outsourced:

“It gives us the ability to access the latest technology and innovation across multiple suppliers,” Thai-Tang said. “So I know exactly what the state of the art is from the Korean suppliers, the Japanese suppliers, the Chinese suppliers, and I’m able to compare notes across them maybe better than they can. And then, of course, we have the competitive tension with dealing with multiple suppliers, which allows us to drive the cost down.”

Ford doesn't sound really confident in the future o EV's, or current battery tech:

Thai-Tang noted that Ford would have to produce 100,000-150,000 EVs each year to justify the cost of building its own battery plant. Such a move would also cause problems when battery technology inevitably reaches a new breakthrough point, or if customer demand for electric vehicles falters in the future

Almost none of the EV components are manuactured in North America. Just like Hamloc keeps pointing out about solar and wind, where we import all of the components.

What’s more, 64 percent of the fully electric Bolt model’s content is made in Korea, including the battery.

No major automaker entirely outsources engines, in no small part thanks to displacement and horsepower being the source of marketing buzz and bragging rights for decades. EVs are a different story -- even Tesla relies heavily on Japan’s Panasonic Corp. in the making of its battery packs.

Batteries -- the single most expensive part of an electric vehicle -- are almost exclusively manufactured overseas and mostly by companies relatively new to the automotive powertrain, such as China’s Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. and South Korea’s SK Innovation Co.

On the other hand, the unions are mad about EV's, so they can't be all bad.
https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/auto-workers-fear-evs-will-be-job-killers https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/auto-workers-fear-evs-will-be-job-killers

[chuckChuck]

So A5 you don't support innovation and new technology because workers might lose their jobs and have to retrain for others?

That's an interesting proposition coming from a farmer who is in an industry that has continually lost farmers and workers adopting newer, larger and much more labour efficient machinery for decades!

No doubt EVs are going to require less workers at all stages of production and implementation. Less moving parts, simpler, cleaner, quieter and more efficient.

Probably smart phones caused a lot of jobs to be lost as well. But we are not going to roll back to landlines and party lines just to hire more workers anytime soon are we? LOL

[fjlip]

CC read the Inconvenient Realities, then answer the impossibilities and FOLLY of wasting the planet resources on a dream. Stop talking till you resolve these issues.

Good find jazz, simple math KILLS all the green/electric arguments....

2. For security and reliability, an average of two months of national demand for hydrocarbons are in storage at any time. Today, barely two hours of national electricity demand can be stored in all utility-scale batteries plus all batteries in one million electric cars in America.

13. Batteries produced annually by the Tesla Gigafactory (world’s biggest battery factory) can store three minutes worth of annual U.S. electric demand.

14. To make enough batteries to store two-day’s worth of U.S. electricity demand would require 1,000 years of production by the Gigafactory (world’s biggest battery factory).

[tweety]

Probably because not much will be manufactured here, all major componenents will be outsourced:

...... Big snip

Almost none of the EV components are manuactured in North America.

Oh wow, that's new, components not made in North America. When did that start happening? Just recently?

[chuckChuck]

CC read the Inconvenient Realities, then answer the impossibilities and FOLLY of wasting the planet resources on a dream. Stop talking till you resolve these issues.

Good find jazz, simple math KILLS all the green/electric arguments....

2. For security and reliability, an average of two months of national demand for hydrocarbons are in storage at any time. Today, barely two hours of national electricity demand can be stored in all utility-scale batteries plus all batteries in one million electric cars in America.

13. Batteries produced annually by the Tesla Gigafactory (world’s biggest battery factory) can store three minutes worth of annual U.S. electric demand.

14. To make enough batteries to store two-day’s worth of U.S. electricity demand would require 1,000 years of production by the Gigafactory (world’s biggest battery factory).

And what happened when coal, steam and fossil fuels replaced human and animal power? In the beginning of each shift did it happen gradually over many years or all at once?

This is a transition period. nothing is going to replace all fossil energy sources quickly or completely. In the history of humans and Technological advancement massive change takes time. Many humans are still using wood to cook their food and heat their homes and are still waiting for technology. So how do you know what the adoption of cleaner energy sources will look like decades from now? It’s also not clear whether electric power will be the dominant energy source in tranportation or whether hydrogen will play a prominent role. Toyota is betting more on hydrogen as a cleaner source. Stay tuned!

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Oh wow, that's new, components not made in North America. When did that start happening? Just recently?

I was responding to your post above where you suggested that it takes less labor to build an EV than an ICE car.
The reality is that it requires much more labor as evidenced by their price tags.
But very little of that labour is by high paid union labour here in North America, where current powertrains are manufactured. The components will be made in China and Korea etc. Using materials mined and refined in 3rd world using virtual slave labour. When you consider the drastic difference in labour costs in those countries, the true cost difference from an EV to an ICE is massively larger than even the price tag would indicate.
Chuck and his NFU are big union supporters, even supporting UNIFOR at the coop refinery. But for some reason, they are fully supportive of auto maker making an end run around Unions by outsourcing EV's, under the guise of being green.
So the union supporters are all OK with importing solar panels, wind turbines, and batteries to power imported EV's. Perhaps Chuck can go to Congo or China and unite the workers there to make up for the lost union jobs here.

This might be all for the better in the long run. Break the unions here, then move production back on shore without the corrupt unions.

[jazz]

Stay tuned!

Yes it is a transition period, a 150 yr one that will skip right over these uneconomical and non functional technologies.