What is Fair for Parts?

[furrowtickler]

"I drew it up in CAD and sent it to a local fab shop. Metal, bending, drilling all in $121.

The part is 2 days away from AGCO. The fab shop had it done next day."

I've done this myself several times at a considerable saving. But I've done it when I have time to measure up the part and create it in CAD, (which I own software for) which most farmers either don't have time for or don't care to do.

There are lots of manufacturers, like Shoup, which specialize in aftermarket parts. But these parts tend to be high volume items subject to frequent replacement. These parts tend to have a lot of application in multiple makes and models, as is the case with cab insulation which cuts different patterns of the same basic product.

This is generally not done for lower volume items in more specialized areas because of the considerable cost of inventory. Then there is also the need to keep pace with frequent model changes and dealing with the possibility of an incorrect measurement resulting in a part that doesn't fit. This market is generally filled by the wrecker yards which don't have to recreate parts but merely disassemble them. If there was money to be made in creating new versions of a broad area of repair parts, someone would already be doing it.

Anyone making of business of this (or any other business for that matter) faces substantial regulatory and compliance costs the moment you have employees. Most have to get large enough quickly just to afford a dedicated HR department to deal with the minefield of hiring and employment practices.

Hmmm interesting, yup we use Shoup.
Must be a PITA for you dealers

[Klause]

Have never seen that program before. Does it work good?

That is Trimble (yes, the GPS maker) Sketchup.


It's the first 3d modeller I used, and it's what I use at work to make As-built draws for directional boring jobs. It is also what I use for woodworking projects and if I need to sketch something out very quickly... I can't draw on paper - As in, I can't even make a stick figure look convincing - Sketchup lets me put ideas onto paper fast.

It's not a true modeler like Autocad because it's a surface modeller not a solids modeller.... that's splitting hairs if you're new.

Sketchup has a free version you can download and play with (click on the "personal" tab on this page: https://www.sketchup.com/plans-and-pricing https://www.sketchup.com/plans-and-pricing

For more advanced models I use Fusion 360 - this is a product by Autodesk, the company that makes Autocad. It does the 2d drawings, 3d models, simulation, and generates the G-code for CNC operations.

It also has a free version which you can find here: https://www.autodesk.ca/en/products/fusion-360/personal https://www.autodesk.ca/en/products/fusion-360/personal

[Klause]

I've done this myself several times at a considerable saving. But I've done it when I have time to measure up the part and create it in CAD, (which I own software for) which most farmers either don't have time for or don't care to do.

Too bad manufacturers didn't provide these drawings, then farmers wouldn't have to create them, themselves, and on top of that the possibility of errors in measurement wouldn't be introduced. Glad you're seeing the value of Right to Repair.

There are lots of manufacturers, like Shoup, which specialize in aftermarket parts. But these parts tend to be high volume items subject to frequent replacement. These parts tend to have a lot of application in multiple makes and models, as is the case with cab insulation which cuts different patterns of the same basic product.

Yup. And anything that's hydraulic will come from one of the 3 or 4 hydraulics companies in the world, which sell to you. Electronics are all available to the public through Mouser, Digikey, and numerous other suppliers... if one can trace down the part number. All of this at massive savings to dealerships.

This is generally not done for lower volume items in more specialized areas because of the considerable cost of inventory. Then there is also the need to keep pace with frequent model changes and dealing with the possibility of an incorrect measurement resulting in a part that doesn't fit. This market is generally filled by the wrecker yards which don't have to recreate parts but merely disassemble them. If there was money to be made in creating new versions of a broad area of repair parts, someone would already be doing it.

Anyone making of business of this (or any other business for that matter) faces substantial regulatory and compliance costs the moment you have employees. Most have to get large enough quickly just to afford a dedicated HR department to deal with the minefield of hiring and employment practices.

Poor argument.


Commercial Industrial Manufacturing
Wiesner's Fabricating
QuickDrain Sales
Lever Enterprises
Mollenbeck Industries
Failure Prevention Services
Hitech Welding, Machining & Fabricating
Sheer Fabrication


All of these are viable operating companies within 20 miles of me that do piece work and will make anything you give them drawings for. I'm not sure where you were going with payroll and HR and all that jazz... I work in the HDD industry, and we also happen to own a fabrication shop at work.

Wreckers charge 50% of new. Manufactured from scratch is 10-15% of new. Why the heck would you go to a wrecker?


Also, you never answered the original question. Is 750% over production + profit a "fair value" to you?

[Oliver88]

Very interesting conversation. A company like Shoup seems like a good option for fixing equipment in the off season. There are several companies in the prairies that will lasercut, CNC router, bend, powder coat (numerous color options), etc.

Good reminder to keep in mind if you have to ever buy an expensive steel or aluminum part.

[makar]

What is to much, my example , sprayer ball valve from oem by dealer, 300, same thing from flexicoil, 900.

[Oliver88]

Hmmm interesting, yup we use Shoup.
Must be a PITA for you dealers

Have you ever used Shoup to order cab interiors or seats?

[blackpowder]

Necessity is the mother of invention.
Tighter margins will see a re birth of prairie farm fab shops.
Except, the newer the unit, the less we can fab. The easier for parts obsolescence. Operating cannibalized/bastardized machines etc.
My neighbor runs a fleet of 8010s that look nothing like when they left the factory.
Cant argue with the factory on their prices except do your diligence.
Go to Rexroth for your hydro charge filters not CaseIh for example.$90 - $200.
And dont buy a Massey

[blackpowder]

Also, remember the factory has a huge time value for money on inventory and warehousing distribution costs. They cant just in time fab everything..

Here's what I'd like to see.
An hours based warranty not a time warranty like 6 months. I've had enough of bearing and hyd motor failure with few hours but past six months.
Of course, we'll pay more for that too.

But, ask any parts person.
Sometimes #s change up just to raise the price. And we're all at the mercy of planned obsolescence. Cant get standard tranny parts for the red Stiegers any more for eg.

[Austrian Economics]

"Too bad manufacturers didn't provide these drawings..." If forced to do this by some Right to Repair Act, (presumably along with source code for any computer systems on the unit), then here's what will happen: you will pay for this information up front, instead of later on through the parts system. Just add 50% to the cost of the purchase price for starters. No manufacturer is going to provide this information for free.

[Partners]

Yes parts are stupid expensive.
Just happy when pattison Ag has them..
Most of the time the shelves are bare..