What is Fair for Parts?

[Klause]

Calling parts prices "atrocious" is not an argument. If you think a part is priced too high, it's incumbent on the person leveling the accusation to explain what the correct price ought to be and how you arrived at that conclusion.

Here's the counterpoint.

Anybody that runs Massey understands what this is, on the left hand of the rotor.

This piece from AGCO is $879.

I drew it up in CAD and sent it to a local fab shop. Metal, bending, drilling all in $121.

The part is 2 days away from AGCO. The fab shop had it done next day.

Is 750% over actual value, fair?

The market doesn't bare this, it is forced to accept it.

[bucket]

I had a casting on the intermediate drive to the chopper break....184 hours....the replacement broke in 80 hours in the exact same spot....

It was a casting failure since you could see the paint got into the crack...

And they want to argue about this...and send a mechanic out to see how my 200 hour combine is running...

Its fine ...your phucking parts are garbage...

AND I won't be able to afford the combine if it keeps breaking every 80-100 hours...

[furrowtickler]

I had a near legal case with Massey on their combines . I laid out the cost of my down time due to their failure in the machines
Downtime on any combine is easily $10,000 / hr on most machines . They backed down very fast when we sent a detailed letter from a law office .
It should not come down to that but you have to stand your ground when you are right .
Otherwise the ag industry thinks they can simply continue on charging outrageous amount for machinery and or parts .
If they want to charge outrageous amounts it better work as advertised. And don’t take a farmers time and or downtime for granted

[tubs]

that is nothing case ih charges me 6 dollars a bolt and need 80 of them all individual wrapped it is nuts what they charge

[farmaholic]

Seems there is no shame, but don't take your frustrations out on the parts counter employees....unless.they're assholes. Those parts prices are set higher up the food chain.

[farmaholic]

that is nothing case ih charges me 6 dollars a bolt and need 80 of them all individual wrapped it is nuts what they charge

That is a perfect example of the price not having to be super high.

Its the lack of "value" that stings just as much as a large sum of money.

[fjlip]

Cab fan on a 9300 4WD, $400, EXACT same fan slightly different mounting for a Sterling tandem,
$150.
9870 and other JD combines, the hyd swivel at end of rotor variable drive sheaves, half the size of a Styrofoam coffee cup, $450. Very specific non generic part I guess.

And yes most have a STUPID design that costs us $$$. Deere engine fan drives, 70 series and early S.

[Austrian Economics]

"I drew it up in CAD and sent it to a local fab shop. Metal, bending, drilling all in $121.

The part is 2 days away from AGCO. The fab shop had it done next day."

I've done this myself several times at a considerable saving. But I've done it when I have time to measure up the part and create it in CAD, (which I own software for) which most farmers either don't have time for or don't care to do.

There are lots of manufacturers, like Shoup, which specialize in aftermarket parts. But these parts tend to be high volume items subject to frequent replacement. These parts tend to have a lot of application in multiple makes and models, as is the case with cab insulation which cuts different patterns of the same basic product.

This is generally not done for lower volume items in more specialized areas because of the considerable cost of inventory. Then there is also the need to keep pace with frequent model changes and dealing with the possibility of an incorrect measurement resulting in a part that doesn't fit. This market is generally filled by the wrecker yards which don't have to recreate parts but merely disassemble them. If there was money to be made in creating new versions of a broad area of repair parts, someone would already be doing it.

Anyone making of business of this (or any other business for that matter) faces substantial regulatory and compliance costs the moment you have employees. Most have to get large enough quickly just to afford a dedicated HR department to deal with the minefield of hiring and employment practices.

[Herc]

Here's the counterpoint.

Anybody that runs Massey understands what this is, on the left hand of the rotor.

This piece from AGCO is $879.

I drew it up in CAD and sent it to a local fab shop. Metal, bending, drilling all in $121.

The part is 2 days away from AGCO. The fab shop had it done next day.

Is 750% over actual value, fair?

The market doesn't bare this, it is forced to accept it.

Have never seen that program before. Does it work good?

[Dr Tone]

Have never seen that program before. Does it work good?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AutoCAD

[furrowtickler]

"I drew it up in CAD and sent it to a local fab shop. Metal, bending, drilling all in $121.

The part is 2 days away from AGCO. The fab shop had it done next day."

I've done this myself several times at a considerable saving. But I've done it when I have time to measure up the part and create it in CAD, (which I own software for) which most farmers either don't have time for or don't care to do.

There are lots of manufacturers, like Shoup, which specialize in aftermarket parts. But these parts tend to be high volume items subject to frequent replacement. These parts tend to have a lot of application in multiple makes and models, as is the case with cab insulation which cuts different patterns of the same basic product.

This is generally not done for lower volume items in more specialized areas because of the considerable cost of inventory. Then there is also the need to keep pace with frequent model changes and dealing with the possibility of an incorrect measurement resulting in a part that doesn't fit. This market is generally filled by the wrecker yards which don't have to recreate parts but merely disassemble them. If there was money to be made in creating new versions of a broad area of repair parts, someone would already be doing it.

Anyone making of business of this (or any other business for that matter) faces substantial regulatory and compliance costs the moment you have employees. Most have to get large enough quickly just to afford a dedicated HR department to deal with the minefield of hiring and employment practices.

Hmmm interesting, yup we use Shoup.
Must be a PITA for you dealers

[Klause]

Have never seen that program before. Does it work good?

That is Trimble (yes, the GPS maker) Sketchup.


It's the first 3d modeller I used, and it's what I use at work to make As-built draws for directional boring jobs. It is also what I use for woodworking projects and if I need to sketch something out very quickly... I can't draw on paper - As in, I can't even make a stick figure look convincing - Sketchup lets me put ideas onto paper fast.

It's not a true modeler like Autocad because it's a surface modeller not a solids modeller.... that's splitting hairs if you're new.

Sketchup has a free version you can download and play with (click on the "personal" tab on this page: https://www.sketchup.com/plans-and-pricing https://www.sketchup.com/plans-and-pricing

For more advanced models I use Fusion 360 - this is a product by Autodesk, the company that makes Autocad. It does the 2d drawings, 3d models, simulation, and generates the G-code for CNC operations.

It also has a free version which you can find here: https://www.autodesk.ca/en/products/fusion-360/personal https://www.autodesk.ca/en/products/fusion-360/personal

[Klause]

I've done this myself several times at a considerable saving. But I've done it when I have time to measure up the part and create it in CAD, (which I own software for) which most farmers either don't have time for or don't care to do.

Too bad manufacturers didn't provide these drawings, then farmers wouldn't have to create them, themselves, and on top of that the possibility of errors in measurement wouldn't be introduced. Glad you're seeing the value of Right to Repair.

There are lots of manufacturers, like Shoup, which specialize in aftermarket parts. But these parts tend to be high volume items subject to frequent replacement. These parts tend to have a lot of application in multiple makes and models, as is the case with cab insulation which cuts different patterns of the same basic product.

Yup. And anything that's hydraulic will come from one of the 3 or 4 hydraulics companies in the world, which sell to you. Electronics are all available to the public through Mouser, Digikey, and numerous other suppliers... if one can trace down the part number. All of this at massive savings to dealerships.

This is generally not done for lower volume items in more specialized areas because of the considerable cost of inventory. Then there is also the need to keep pace with frequent model changes and dealing with the possibility of an incorrect measurement resulting in a part that doesn't fit. This market is generally filled by the wrecker yards which don't have to recreate parts but merely disassemble them. If there was money to be made in creating new versions of a broad area of repair parts, someone would already be doing it.

Anyone making of business of this (or any other business for that matter) faces substantial regulatory and compliance costs the moment you have employees. Most have to get large enough quickly just to afford a dedicated HR department to deal with the minefield of hiring and employment practices.

Poor argument.


Commercial Industrial Manufacturing
Wiesner's Fabricating
QuickDrain Sales
Lever Enterprises
Mollenbeck Industries
Failure Prevention Services
Hitech Welding, Machining & Fabricating
Sheer Fabrication


All of these are viable operating companies within 20 miles of me that do piece work and will make anything you give them drawings for. I'm not sure where you were going with payroll and HR and all that jazz... I work in the HDD industry, and we also happen to own a fabrication shop at work.

Wreckers charge 50% of new. Manufactured from scratch is 10-15% of new. Why the heck would you go to a wrecker?


Also, you never answered the original question. Is 750% over production + profit a "fair value" to you?

[Oliver88]

Very interesting conversation. A company like Shoup seems like a good option for fixing equipment in the off season. There are several companies in the prairies that will lasercut, CNC router, bend, powder coat (numerous color options), etc.

Good reminder to keep in mind if you have to ever buy an expensive steel or aluminum part.

[makar]

What is to much, my example , sprayer ball valve from oem by dealer, 300, same thing from flexicoil, 900.