Coronavirus response can ‘reshape the future of energy,’ IEA says in annual report

[tweety]

Only an complete moron would come on to an ag forum and say Farmers are subsidized after justine just gave all his buddies billions and billions of subsidies !

Your a ****ing idiot !

We don't take a dime if we don't earn it Way out Here !

Are you sure the moron isn't the one saying farmers get no subsidies?

[chuckChuck]

Chuck2 you asked what the value of the electricity was over the lifetime of the system. I said the electricity in Saskatchewan is worth almost twice as much as it would be in Alberta as far as what a person would be payed. Not that hard to figure out if you read my previous posts LOL!

Hamloc what's the price you pay per Kwh all in, including service charges, supply, transmission and distribution costs?

Because Hydro Quebec has a comparison of electricity prices across selected North American cities and it shows the residential cost of electricity in Edmonton and Calgary at 14.29 and 14.83 cents per kwh respectively. Those prices are hardly 1/2 the cost of electricity in Saskatchewan.

https://www.hydroquebec.com/data/documents-donnees/pdf/comparison-electricity-prices.pdf https://www.hydroquebec.com/data/documents-donnees/pdf/comparison-electricity-prices.pdf

[Hamloc]

Hamloc what's the price you pay per Kwh all in, including service charges, supply, transmission and distribution costs?

Because Hydro Quebec has a comparison of electricity prices across selected North American cities and it shows the residential cost of electricity in Edmonton and Calgary at 14.29 and 14.83 cents per kwh respectively. Those prices are hardly 1/2 the cost of electricity in Saskatchewan.

https://www.hydroquebec.com/data/documents-donnees/pdf/comparison-electricity-prices.pdf https://www.hydroquebec.com/data/documents-donnees/pdf/comparison-electricity-prices.pdf

It is unfortunate you seem unable to read. In Alberta we pay a generation portion, a transmission and distribution and administration portion. The portion your are credited for if you have a grid tie solar system is the generation portion which was capped by the NDP government in 2017 I think at 6.9 cents a kwh until the end of 2021. Transmission is the largest portion of the bill and it is determined by the size of the breaker on the pole. The larger the breaker, the larger your potential power consumption is and therefore a higher monthly transmission charge. My power consumption charge varies a lot during the year but the transmission charge doesn’t change much. All in my average cost of electricity is roughly 19 cent a kwh. My consumption more than doubles in the winter over summer due to livestock watering and my electric feedmill.

[chuckChuck]

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

Your total cost per kwh from a utility in Alberta is significantly higher than Saskatchewan for farms.

In Saskatchewan Sask Power now credits 7.5 cents per kwh to solar system owners for any excess electricity that they produce. Under my older contract I get the same as I pay for 10 years. So currently just shy of 13 cents per kwh.

Under net metering any solar power you use while the system is generating does not show up on the meter. Only the excess electricity that is used and surplus that is generated. This is balanced out over a specific period to determine a credit or charge.

So the value of any solar electricity you displace in Alberta is the same as you pay.

[furrowtickler]

What’s the environmental impact of developing solar panels... and al related equipment ?? Just askin

Cause open pit mines for rare earth minerals and massive disposal sites for wind turbines and expired solar panels don’t matter I guess.
Was just curious on those scientific studies if they are available

Must be carbon neutral , no reports I guess

[chuckChuck]

Solar panels have an environmental impact to be sure.

But the important question is how does it compare to other sources of electricity and fossil fuels?

Funny though, you don't seem to ever bring up the environmental and health impact of other sources of energy. And you don't seem to believe that carbon emissions from burning fossil fuels are causing climate change.

So why should anyone take your concerns about the environmental impact of renewable electricity sources seriously?

[Hamloc]

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

Your total cost per kwh from a utility in Alberta is significantly higher than Saskatchewan for farms.

In Saskatchewan Sask Power now credits 7.5 cents per kwh to solar system owners for any excess electricity that they produce. Under my older contract I get the same as I pay for 10 years. So currently just shy of 13 cents per kwh.

Under net metering any solar power you use while the system is generating does not show up on the meter. Only the excess electricity that is used and surplus that is generated. This is balanced out over a specific period to determine a credit or charge.

So the value of any solar electricity you displace in Alberta is the same as you pay.

In Alberta I do not believe the value of any electricity you displace is the same as you pay and I will give you the numbers from a couple of bills to explain why.
July 2020. January 2020.

Energy charge. 859 kwh 58.32. 2499 kwh 169.68.
Admin charge. 7.24. 7.24.
Distribution charge. 92.97. 108.24.
Transmission charge. 72.20. 89.59.
Balancing pool allocation. 2.27. 7.68.
Rate riders. 8.02. 4.87.

Total. 241.02. 387.30.

Price per kwh. .28. .155.

So as you can see distribution and transmission do decrease slightly when my consumption goes down but it is my belief that under net billing they would not be credited. The only way to eliminate them would be to disconnect from the grid. Also as you can see my consumption almost triples in the winter, for me going solar just wouldn’t work, cattle waterers, feed mill and my shop all have to function at -30. Transmission and distribution are over 19 cents a kwh in the summer, as far as I know if my consumption was zero I would still pay these charges I just don’t know what they would be. I never agreed with Ralph Klein’s electricity privatization plan because I felt Alberta’s population was too small to create a competitive market.

[furrowtickler]

Solar panels have an environmental impact to be sure.

But the important question is how does it compare to other sources of electricity and fossil fuels?

Funny though, you don't seem to ever bring up the environmental and health impact of other sources of energy. And you don't seem to believe that carbon emissions from burning fossil fuels are causing climate change.

So why should anyone take your concerns about the environmental impact of renewable electricity sources seriously?

Not really concerned just pointing out that it never gets brought up , ever . Tell the tale with the whole story .
Don’t need to bring up impacts of other sources cause they are and have been laid out for a long time . There are good and bad points to everything . Yes solar is going to play a big part and is on many parts of the world . That’s a good thing , but it’s not all flowers and sunshine, there is an environmental impact that no one talks about . It’s just all great and free ... well that’s not telling the truth at all .
Wind power is good in areas as well but there is a big downside that no one talks about . Maintenance and longevity are not what they claim . Hopefully that changes . And the natural resources needed to build each windmill is huge.

The evils of oil have been regurgitated for a long time , but things have significantly changed there as well with new technologies in gas and oil . And yes burning less fossil fuels is in everyone’s best interest. But as a farmer there is little more one can do to reduce fuel usage . It’s a big expense and I know no one anywhere who burns more than what is necessary.

And I don’t 100% believe burning fossil fuels causes climate change , I believe it plays a role that’s been greatly exaggerated. Many other factors have been over shadowed. But definitely needs to be reduced where it can .
And yes burning less fossil fuels will help reduce pollution in many parts of the world . And when we can farm with machinery that does not burn fossil fuels it may help , but until then all we can do is be efficient as we can with what we have to use and hopefully more excessive carbon tax’s does not erode our bottom lines to nothing in the meantime.
How many clean burning tier 4 engines at your farm chuck ?

There are good and bad sides to every story .

[chuckChuck]

In Alberta I do not believe the value of any electricity you displace is the same as you pay and I will give you the numbers from a couple of bills to explain why.
July 2020. January 2020.

Energy charge. 859 kwh 58.32. 2499 kwh 169.68.
Admin charge. 7.24. 7.24.
Distribution charge. 92.97. 108.24.
Transmission charge. 72.20. 89.59.
Balancing pool allocation. 2.27. 7.68.
Rate riders. 8.02. 4.87.

Total. 241.02. 387.30.

Price per kwh. .28. .155.

So as you can see distribution and transmission do decrease slightly when my consumption goes down but it is my belief that under net billing they would not be credited. The only way to eliminate them would be to disconnect from the grid. Also as you can see my consumption almost triples in the winter, for me going solar just wouldn’t work, cattle waterers, feed mill and my shop all have to function at -30. Transmission and distribution are over 19 cents a kwh in the summer, as far as I know if my consumption was zero I would still pay these charges I just don’t know what they would be. I never agreed with Ralph Klein’s electricity privatization plan because I felt Alberta’s population was too small to create a competitive market.

By your example it looks like in Alberta they are overcharging smaller users and making them pay much higher costs for electricity than larger volume farm users by charging a lot for transmission and distribution even when you use small amounts.

In Saskatchewan our basic farm service charge is 34.97 per month. All the other costs of electricity are included in the cost per kwh. The more kwh you use the more you pay.

Any kwh I generate and use from my solar system are kwh I don't buy from Saskpower. I also get a credit for any excess kwh I produce over the whole year.

In your situation your usage in summer is a much lower. In my case my usage in August and September for drying using aeration is much higher and my winter usage is not very high.

Under our plan solar makes a lot of sense because we get credit for all the excess we produce regardless of the time of year.

Under your situation it doesn't works as well because they will probably keep charging the high transmission and distribution charges.

Although if you are in the drier southern regions of Alberta I expect you can displace a lot of kwh with solar in the winter too.

The underlying story is under Alberta's privatized electricity system, farmers pay a lot more for electricity than Saskatchewan farmers do. That's the benefit of having a regulated crown corporation in Saskatchewan serving customers rather than serving shareholders.

Privatized utilities are not going to be interested in lower cost grid tied renewables unless they can make money from them. Therefore they will make sure they are not viable unless they deploy their own renewable grid scale systems.

[Guest]

I like having crown NG ,power, medical
Wish we had fuel , gas also

[Hamloc]

By your example it looks like in Alberta they are overcharging smaller users and making them pay much higher costs for electricity than larger volume farm users by charging a lot for transmission and distribution even when you use small amounts.

In Saskatchewan our basic farm service charge is 34.97 per month. All the other costs of electricity are included in the cost per kwh. The more kwh you use the more you pay.

Any kwh I generate and use from my solar system are kwh I don't buy from Saskpower. I also get a credit for any excess kwh I produce over the whole year.

In your situation your usage in summer is a much lower. In my case my usage in August and September for drying using aeration is much higher and my winter usage is not very high.

Under our plan solar makes a lot of sense because we get credit for all the excess we produce regardless of the time of year.

Under your situation it doesn't works as well because they will probably keep charging the high transmission and distribution charges.

Although if you are in the drier southern regions of Alberta I expect you can displace a lot of kwh with solar in the winter too.

The underlying story is under Alberta's privatized electricity system, farmers pay a lot more for electricity than Saskatchewan farmers do. That's the benefit of having a regulated crown corporation in Saskatchewan serving customers rather than serving shareholders.

Privatized utilities are not going to be interested in lower cost grid tied renewables unless they can make money from them. Therefore they will make sure they are not viable unless they deploy their own renewable grid scale systems.

The transmission and distribution as I said is based on the breaker on the pole under the meter. Smaller rural power consumers will have a smaller breaker and therefore smaller transmission and distribution charges than me.

You state that privatized utilities wouldn’t be interested in I would say small not lower cost cost grid tie because they can’t make money off them. What is the benefit to Sask power? They subsidize it and yet according to you your cost of lifetime generation is 8 cents a kwh. I believe in the past you have said commercial scale solar has a generation cost of 4-5 cents a kwh. So Sask power subsidizes small grid tie systems, cost of generation is still higher than commercial based systems and the consumer who installs the system takes 15-20 years to pay it off. Sounds like a ridiculous scheme to me!

[chuckChuck]

The transmission and distribution as I said is based on the breaker on the pole under the meter. Smaller rural power consumers will have a smaller breaker and therefore smaller transmission and distribution charges than me.

You state that privatized utilities wouldn’t be interested in I would say small not lower cost cost grid tie because they can’t make money off them. What is the benefit to Sask power? They subsidize it and yet according to you your cost of lifetime generation is 8 cents a kwh. I believe in the past you have said commercial scale solar has a generation cost of 4-5 cents a kwh. So Sask power subsidizes small grid tie systems, cost of generation is still higher than commercial based systems and the consumer who installs the system takes 15-20 years to pay it off. Sounds like a ridiculous scheme to me!

Saskpower wanted to give consumers a chance to generate their own solar in an effort to be perceived as more progressive and green and also let consumers pay for most of the upfront costs which then provide Saskpower with an idea of how well it works and the carbon reduction credit. Quite the trick. Customers pay the capital costs and Saskpower gets low carbon emission electricity to help the shift over.

It doesn't cost Saskpower much to let people install grid tie solar. But if I produce most of my own electricity on an annual basis from solar and get credit for it when I have too much, then that money which would normally go to Saskpower is lost to them. But under Saskpower rate structures, small farm users get the same rate as bigger farm users no matter how much they use. I m just a smaller Saskpower farm customer now same as all the other smaller farm customers who have the same service as I do.

Under the plan I have, I can lock in lower electricity rates than what I will pay Saskpower for many years. Whether it is 8 or 10 cents a kwh, it was a plan that was open to anyone who wanted it 2 years ago.

And of course utility scale solar and wind projects are getting cheaper every year and small grid tied systems will never be able to compete on price alone at those scales.

Saskatchewan is definitely a better place to be than Alberta if you want cheaper electricity on a farm with or without solar, thanks to your private utilities who are screwing you over.

Manitoba with lots of renewable hydro is even better.