Ag PHD app

[AlbertaFarmer5]

One good thunderstorm can add 50ib/ac n in crop year.... A good pea crop can add another 100b/ac n the next 3 years... plus soil conditioning / nutrient avaliability/uptake is increased... 60bu/ac pea crop well chopped and spread= huge productivity gains after that pulse crop... fabas not so much...

I don't have my Les Henry soils book in front of me, but he claims that is a myth. That in reality, a couple of lbs per acre per year from thunderstorms is all that can be expected(give or take, going by memory).

Supposedly legumes are overrated in what they can supply.

Everyone here bales pea straw. If the N is worth that much, then they are getting a bad deal selling the straw.

[furrowtickler]

True if this is the first year that the straw was returned to the soil. But if you have been putting the straw back every year for years or decades, at some point the mineralization of previous straw must cancel out the need to fertilize for the stover growth in the current year. If not, then where do the nutrients go?

What’s needed is a healthy soil to recycle and mineralize those nutrients properly, otherwise the potential benefit becomes a disease Petri dish, as said above when soils become anaerobic. Thus higher levels of fusarium, root rots and a lot of the issues we see today. Makes the chem companies happy but all they offer are Costly band aid fixes in seed treatments and fungicides. Needs to start with a healthier soil .
Western Canadian agronomy in general got away from that and just promoted higher and higher fertility which leads to degraded soils and more disease levels in most cases .
From what I’ve seen the past 15 years here , soil amendments to promote healthy bacteria are the link to getting mineralization back and healthy soils to properly break down straw and stover , thus greatly reducing disease levels and dependence on very high fertility to get decent crops . Unfortunately here , we got behind the 8 ball and it will take a while . Listened to too many “expert agronomists” that simply focused on higher fertility and promote costly variable rate, rather than soil health . It was and is all about their retail sales , not the real issues starting from the soil in the first place.

[FarmJunkie]

Fabas are just as good Furrow. At least on this farm. Less of a pain to work in for sure

[workboots]

You have to wonder if less mobile nutrients from the stover accumulate in the surface layers of low til soil? How avalable is your soil analysis “plant avalable” phosphate in a dry surface soil condition?


Fabas are know to chelate phosphates by releasing acidic root exudates that release non avalable nutrients tied up in the soil. You can have a faba crop remove 60lbs of P from the soil and still show higher soil P levels after a year of production with a lessor fertility package.

[farmaholic]

Furrow, I like the idea of aerating the soil but not with tillage. Last spring there were a gazillion earthworms when we were checking seeding depth. This fall when we disced a very small patch in the fields we were harvesting to place the tractor and disc on in case of fire, I noticed the lumps and chunks the disc turned up were full of earthworm tunnels. But where did the worms go? Deeper? Get out the track hoe! Lol, oops I forgot

[Sheepwheat]

I know it’s a swear word, but again, f o r a g e.

Pencil out hay values. Forage seed one time cost amortized is ridiculously cheap. Perennials smash the cycle, to the point where they almost let you start over with near virgin soil and a clean slate of soil health.

Best, for that portion of the farm, you eliminate the treadmill from hell.

[farmaholic]

Once PLENTIFUL dairies in this area are down to two.
Beef guys don't pay well, or sometimes ever. Fewer of them too, but whose left are running much bigger #'s.
We don't have cattle and have no intention on getting back in.
Phosphate for perennial trifoliates is expensive too.
Field maintenance, mole hill, gopher, badger and fox hole leveling and maybe rolling is required.
I'm not investing in fence or dug-outs for something that could be grazed but taken out of production when the establishment gets "tired" and put back into annual crop production.

[helmsdale]

True if this is the first year that the straw was returned to the soil. But if you have been putting the straw back every year for years or decades, at some point the mineralization of previous straw must cancel out the need to fertilize for the stover growth in the current year. If not, then where do the nutrients go?

If your organic content concentration has stabilized, then yes. But as you said, a certain(likely large) amount disappears to the air and a smaller amount leaches to deeper depths.

The amount of mineralization depends on the O content and whether you're in balance or not... rough number I've gone with is 10lbs available for every 1%OM.

At least in my neighborhood, I figure not alot of the above ground residue returns to the soil as N if the C:N ratio of the residue is high. The long breakdown period of high C:N material means it likely gasses to atmosphere, but it keeps the ground cooler and damper which at least here is a significant reducer of soil N volatization.

In our case if you shot for half that yield, stover would require 32lbs, so if soil OM is less than 3.2% which the majority around here is, you'll have to supply the stover growth above what will mineralize.

[furrowtickler]

Furrow, I like the idea of aerating the soil but not with tillage. Last spring there were a gazillion earthworms when we were checking seeding depth. This fall when we disced a very small patch in the fields we were harvesting to place the tractor and disc on in case of fire, I noticed the lumps and chunks the disc turned up were full of earthworm tunnels. But where did the worms go? Deeper? Get out the track hoe! Lol, oops I forgot

Tillage is not the answer at all in this area either.
Just low areas to help dry out soil and help prevent frost damage at the end of May
Soil aerating needs to be done by good bacteria balance ... let the bugs do the work .
90% of our “tillage” is just the top inch while leaving 60/70% of the stubble in place . Need to help blacken the soil just a bit to help increase soil temp and biology most springs here .
Every area different.

[helmsdale]

Typical OM here is ~2.25% +/- about .75%.

I have some as low as 1.7(started at 1.3 10 years ago), and some as high as 3.4(seems to have stabilized). The stuff that started at 1.3 consistently had the residue removed from the field, eroded consistently in fallow years, and seen ZERO additional nutrients since it was broke 90-100 years ago. Stuff at 3.4 was broke in the late 60s and early 70s, didnt blow in the 80s, no residue has been removed, went min-till in the late 80s, continuous in the early 2000s, and has been supplemented with fertilizer since the mid 90s. The difference in crop potential is stark between the two!