0 till and phos

[HappyFarmer]

how are they applying the phos in their trials?

Is everyone satisfied with putting the phos with the seed or just an inch below and to the side?

has anyone done a test strip with deep banded phos beside seed placed, what were the results?

40 lbs actual P and 30 k with cereals with seed with 5710 on 9.8's and 3/4 inch openers last 7 years no issues.

40 lbs actual P with canola seed last 7 years same set up and have had enough. Moving it to all in MRB next year. On the wet years with good soil moisture I had no issues but the last 3 dry springs I am seeing some emergence issue. Im set up with a small 350 tank so filling is a issue when your are putting 420 lbs of product down. Right now in my farming carrier I have to make the equipment work that I have so a tank and tractor upgrade isn't in the cards. Ideally I would like to go 15 p with canola seed and 25 p down midrow. Will see how this new plan works this year.

[bobofthenorth]

Phosphate is tightly held by the soil cation exchange sites. Plant available phosphate is only about 1/10 of a percent of the total soil phosphate. When you apply soluble phosphate (fertilizer) the soil immediately goes to work trying to restore that equilibrium where only 1/10 of a percent of total soil P is actually available.

That soil chemistry means that very little of the phosphate you apply in any particular year is used in the year of application. It also means that skipping the phosphate for one or even several years may not have much impact on yield. You're applying 30 or 40# of phosphate; if your soil test is 25-45# that means your total soil P is 25000 - 45000 pounds. So skipping a 30 or 40 pound application in any given year isn't all that important, with one big caveat. Plants have trouble taking up phosphate in cold soils. That's why you seed place phosphate - to increase the concentration of soluble phosphate near to the seedling. Phosphate is important for early root development. P deficiency will show up as delayed growth which the plant may grow out of. No matter what the snake oil salesmen have told you, measuring a yield response from P is extremely difficult. Some years there simply isn't a yield response.

[farmaholic]

Is phos required throughout the entire plant growth cycle?
I thought most was needed early.

caseih, 300 lbs. per acre with Atomjets could probably be pretty toxic in the Sahara Slum of the Ghetto some years... the Swamp can probably handle that.

We should be using more.

[helmsdale]

Is phos required throughout the entire plant growth cycle?
I thought most was needed early.

caseih, 300 lbs. per acre with Atomjets could probably be pretty toxic in the Sahara Slum of the Ghetto some years... the Swamp can probably handle that.

We should be using more.

I did 315 in wheat on a 3" spread single shoot once to see what happened... N component was 100% esn. Blend ended up being 109lb N, 35lb P. In sandy soil I seen no mortality issues, but soil moisture was extreme by special area standards.

Yield was meh, protein was retarded...

[malleefarmer]

we double shoot
nothing goes with seed , 3/4" away same depth , atom jet , one wing
have gone as high as 300 lbs product (total blend) with no problems, even though gerry says it doesn't work

Sorry for ignorance 300 lbs acre hectare. I mentioned my 60 to 80 kg per ha.

Is MAP and DAP foreign fert terms to you? MonO and di ammonia phosphates

[TOM4CWB]

Phosphate is tightly held by the soil cation exchange sites. Plant available phosphate is only about 1/10 of a percent of the total soil phosphate. When you apply soluble phosphate (fertilizer) the soil immediately goes to work trying to restore that equilibrium where only 1/10 of a percent of total soil P is actually available.

That soil chemistry means that very little of the phosphate you apply in any particular year is used in the year of application. It also means that skipping the phosphate for one or even several years may not have much impact on yield. You're applying 30 or 40# of phosphate; if your soil test is 25-45# that means your total soil P is 25000 - 45000 pounds. So skipping a 30 or 40 pound application in any given year isn't all that important, with one big caveat. Plants have trouble taking up phosphate in cold soils. That's why you seed place phosphate - to increase the concentration of soluble phosphate near to the seedling. Phosphate is important for early root development. P deficiency will show up as delayed growth which the plant may grow out of. No matter what the snake oil salesmen have told you, measuring a yield response from P is extremely difficult. Some years there simply isn't a yield response.

Bob I agree.

Using high soluble P at half the rate... seems double or more availability... no visible yield reductions... cost about the same but has added micros. Just Phos inoculant on pulse years to break down rock phos that is not counted as plant available by agronomists. Roots can bring up P from lower depths [perhaps less root diseases?]... perhaps why especially Alfalfa builds soil fertility for years after. Just like on an average year 50lbN from atmospheric lightning storms is needed to achieve yields we harvest? ....

[TASFarms]

Don’t the roots acidify the soil around them. Put the phos in that zone. It will all get used

[Oliver88]

we're putting 34-40 actual , where is everyone at?
have put none at all with peas , couldn't see it

26 actual with canola
33 actual with cereals
(With seed)

[Guest]

Is phos required throughout the entire plant growth cycle?
I thought most was needed early.

caseih, 300 lbs. per acre with Atomjets could probably be pretty toxic in the Sahara Slum of the Ghetto some years... the Swamp can probably handle that.

We should be using more.

Yea might be different next year now that swamp has dried up

[Guest]

Sorry for ignorance 300 lbs acre hectare. I mentioned my 60 to 80 kg per ha.

Is MAP and DAP foreign fert terms to you? MonO and di ammonia phosphates

No per acre

[beaverdam]

we're putting 34-40 actual , where is everyone at?
have put none at all with peas , couldn't see it

Wow, that seems to be a massive amount with the seed. That's like 65-80lbs physical per acre of phos.
That's like $20 something/acre just for phos, that's a lot of groceries.

[bobofthenorth]

Is MAP and DAP foreign fert terms to you? MonO and di ammonia phosphates

MAP & DAP are definitely foreign terms in western Canada. Our calcareous soils require MAP. I've never seen DAP offered here. If you walked into a random retail fertilizer dealership and asked for 10 tonnes of MAP I'm guessing 75% of the time you'd get a completely blank stare in response. Ask for DAP and 100% of them will just think you're a looney.

[Sodbuster]

We have upped our game a couple of years ago, we’re seed placing 20P and sidebanding 25P on cereals and seed placing 13 and 32P sidebanded with canola seed. This is with a Seedhawk with 1/2” shanks. Not wanting to cause fertilizer burn I’ve been reluctant to put more than 25 lbs of 11-52 with canola seed, previously we used to put all our P down the fertilizer knife.

[seldomseen]

how are they applying the phos in their trials?

Is everyone satisfied with putting the phos with the seed or just an inch below and to the side?

has anyone done a test strip with deep banded phos beside seed placed, what were the results?

Some seed placed but a lot with a Seed Hawk.

I have been putting 40 lb actual with the seed with in all crops except peas with a 2 inch opener.

Bougault did some trials a few years ago with seed placed phos trials with canola where they put 100 lb in the seed row with a 3/4 inch opener. They found with 100 lb they lowered the plant counts a little but in the end had higher yields.

[Guest]

But their same tests said N is very toxic(it isnt) if you have the right setup
I bet every mid row banding BG around here is putting 30-40 lbs act P with a 3/4 knife
At least atom jet puts it 3/4” away