Canola seed treatment

[jdg364]

Are people still spending the $70-90/bag for lubiderm on their canola seed? I’ve heard that there are a couple new seed treatments on the market now, and wondering if people are trying the new and improved stuff.

This past spring (north sask) it seemed that people who seeded in first half may really struggled with flea beetles, last year it was cutworms, didn’t matter what treatment they used.

Our farm didn’t use any extra seed treatment, and we still ended up spraying 25% of our cnl acres.. probably in line or a bit below the area average.

[Jordy2323]

Here lumiderm is a waste of money. Now since they aren't the new kid on the block anymore, they have come out and admitted that they are only really stonger on cutworms, not flea beatles.
Spraying for flea beatles varies from year to year. Like you, most years we spray about 25%, and other one off years guys here have sprayed 4 times.
2018 flea beatles cleaned up fields over a weekend, so now everyone jumps into the sprayer a lot quicker than we used to.

[farmaholic]

Read em and weep. Look at the rate required for flea beetle control versus cutworm control(or suppression or what ever the "F" they are claiming).

$o at $70-90 a bag how much flea beetle control are you really getting?

Pirates!!!!! But we so willingly turn over the bounty!

[bucket]

Why can you not buy bare seed if you know you are spraying for insects anyway?

I have asked numerous times to sell just bare canola seed...then I dont have to guess whether I will be spraying....just go out with pounce and slow them down...

From what I have seen ...bare mustard pops out of ground faster than treated canola with the best genetics...

[Partners]

Have been getting fortenza advanced on the Dekalb canola.
Works very good.
Never spray for beetles .
BUTEO is the new one for next yr.

[biglentil]

Flea Beatles are bad but these devil beatles live up to their name.

[fjlip]

We don't have Devils, Fortenza Advanced seems to keep fleas down long enough...
and apparently these DEVILS won't allow me to attach a jpg? Tried several pics?

[TASFarms]

Fortenza Is the same active as lumiderm. Must be a higher rate?

[the big wheel]

Not much works when it’s dry and the canola is slow moving except spraying. It depends a lot on the conditions.

[Grahamp]

We don’t spray for flee beetles, I used to every year but they need to bite to die, so I finally decided 3 years ago, you know what I am just going to leave them.

It would drive me crazy the agronomist would come out and say “I’m seeing more flee beetles than I would like, we better give them a shot of something.” So now I have to stop the end of preseed burn off, falling behind there, meet the Chem rep somewhere, argue about thresholds for awhile and finally spray.

So in a very rare moment of clarity I fired the agronomist and quit spraying, I don’t care how many flee beetles I see. If I have to reseed I’ll reseed but haven’t had to yet. Saving nothing but money.

Joking aside in my opinion the most important trait when selecting a variety is early season vigor. That means overcoming the extreme mental deficiency that causes you to grow Nexerra’s of any kind.

I do like Lumiderm though as cutworms have gotten to be a bigger problem here every year, and so far it does a good job of that. I miss spraying Lorsban though, I liked the headaches and the extra finger that I was starting to grow.

[furrowtickler]

As seeding dates have gotten earlier and earlier and fertilizer rates have gone to 2-3 x , Flea Beatle issues have gotten worse . That’s a fact .
It’s clear after seeing it for 25 years .
Lumiderm is still a cutworm product , always was .
Stripped fleas are the issue for everyone , and just now being addressed.
Fortenza has less active than lumiderm
Canola on canola is extremely risky
Most guys seeding canola on canola just spray ... fact of life , even canola/ cereal / canola.... well the guys that understand the risk .... each to their own btw and they spray when needed .
Anytime a canola plant is stressed severely before the 2 leaf there is an issue ., period , with any seed treatments 90% of the time.
Frost or poor emergence from fertilizer burn , which no one admits .. especially retailers, is by far the biggest issue cause of weak seedlings , then fleas attack vigorously on Those week plants .
I showed pictures here before of an entire field wiped out from fertilizer burn except one plugged fert run every 72 ft on a 400 ac field . Seed treatment had zero to do with it .
All seed treatments work if seedling conditions are good.. canola , pulse or cereals ... all the same.
Problem is most springs are harsh one way or the other and seed treatments only work as good as the good the environmental conditions they are in .
There has been no real effective seed treatments in canola for stripped fleas until recently, crucifers are non existent till late season now .
Lumiderm and related products were developed for cutworms and slightly enhanced flea beatle control period ... your retailer should have acknowledged that at the point of sale from day one .
If not they are not farmer friendly...
Not making any excuses for product performance for anyone , just laying out the facts as they are .
And in no way any justification of seed treatment costs , which IMO are way too hi for the risk involved in what we all do as farmers , but farmers do push risk factors a lot and Mother Nature is a very big wild card on how any product works in less than ideal conditions.
But for the cost of seed , the expectations are high and they should be , but they are not bullet proof to harsh environmental conditions or extreme fertility situations.
The problem is we all pay way too much for seed for the risks involved for that first 2 weeks of seeding establishing up to the 2-3 leaf stages.
the old seed treatments that were affordable and effective were deemed unsafe and harmful to the environment... so now we pay way too much for too little.
I hope it’s not a sign of things to come , and I am afraid it is .

We have seeded Canola with a planter with Lumiderm for 4 years at around 2 lbs / ac . Had very dry conditions and frost. Never had to reseed and only sprayed a few headlands and had very reasonable ok stands every year .
Point is , zero fertilizer burn ever , and very quick emergence and continued growth . Seed treatments work when seedlings are active .
Nearly everyone around sprayed or had to reseed some .
It’s not the planter , it’s the lack of stress....
That’s also the issue in pea crops at early stages... it’s the plant stress ... that’s just my opinion and from years of seeing what’s happening in not just my fields but many others around me .

Take The health stress (underlying issues) out of Covid deaths ... it would be 80 % less . .
Put yourself at risk and bad things happen, crops are no different, neither is many other things in life today .

Hopefully that makes some sense
At least it’s ag related lol

[the big wheel]

As seeding dates have gotten earlier and earlier and fertilizer rates have gone to 2-3 x , Flea Beatle issues have gotten worse . That’s a fact .
It’s clear after seeing it for 25 years .
Lumiderm is still a cutworm product , always was .
Stripped fleas are the issue for everyone , and just now being addressed.
Fortenza has less active than lumiderm
Canola on canola is extremely risky
Most guys seeding canola on canola just spray ... fact of life , even canola/ cereal / canola.... well the guys that understand the risk .... each to their own btw and they spray when needed .
Anytime a canola plant is stressed severely before the 2 leaf there is an issue ., period , with any seed treatments 90% of the time.
Frost or poor emergence from fertilizer burn , which no one admits .. especially retailers, is by far the biggest issue cause of weak seedlings , then fleas attack vigorously on Those week plants .
I showed pictures here before of an entire field wiped out from fertilizer burn except one plugged fert run every 72 ft on a 400 ac field . Seed treatment had zero to do with it .
All seed treatments work if seedling conditions are good.. canola , pulse or cereals ... all the same.
Problem is most springs are harsh one way or the other and seed treatments only work as good as the good the environmental conditions they are in .
There has been no real effective seed treatments in canola for stripped fleas until recently, crucifers are non existent till late season now .
Lumiderm and related products were developed for cutworms and slightly enhanced flea beatle control period ... your retailer should have acknowledged that at the point of sale from day one .
If not they are not farmer friendly...
Not making any excuses for product performance for anyone , just laying out the facts as they are .
And in no way any justification of seed treatment costs , which IMO are way too hi for the risk involved in what we all do as farmers , but farmers do push risk factors a lot and Mother Nature is a very big wild card on how any product works in less than ideal conditions.
But for the cost of seed , the expectations are high and they should be , but they are not bullet proof to harsh environmental conditions or extreme fertility situations.
The problem is we all pay way too much for seed for the risks involved for that first 2 weeks of seeding establishing up to the 2-3 leaf stages.
the old seed treatments that were affordable and effective were deemed unsafe and harmful to the environment... so now we pay way too much for too little.
I hope it’s not a sign of things to come , and I am afraid it is .

We have seeded Canola with a planter with Lumiderm for 4 years at around 2 lbs / ac . Had very dry conditions and frost. Never had to reseed and only sprayed a few headlands and had very reasonable ok stands every year .
Point is , zero fertilizer burn ever , and very quick emergence and continued growth . Seed treatments work when seedlings are active .
Nearly everyone around sprayed or had to reseed some .
It’s not the planter , it’s the lack of stress....
That’s also the issue in pea crops at early stages... it’s the plant stress ... that’s just my opinion and from years of seeing what’s happening in not just my fields but many others around me .

Take The health stress (underlying issues) out of Covid deaths ... it would be 80 % less . Its a hard fact .
Put yourself at risk and bad things happen, crops are no different, neither is many other things in life today .

Hopefully that makes some sense
At least it’s ag related lol

If conditions are good plants take off and no need for treatment if conditions are bad treatment don’t work is how it seems to work for me. Therefore I wish could buy untreated seed. When I need to spray or not the cost of treatment on the seed is a waste. Although the rebate helps cost to spray. I look at that as an admission it don’t work but a saviour for them of liability other wise they’d be paying for a whole lost crop.

[FarmJunkie]

If u can find some varieties that suit your area and agronomics with Buteo on them it seems to be way more effective than the old treatments. Not to say it will be effective long but definitely better in our trials last spring. Pressure was very high.

[GDR]

We don’t spray for flee beetles, I used to every year but they need to bite to die, so I finally decided 3 years ago, you know what I am just going to leave them.

It would drive me crazy the agronomist would come out and say “I’m seeing more flee beetles than I would like, we better give them a shot of something.” So now I have to stop the end of preseed burn off, falling behind there, meet the Chem rep somewhere, argue about thresholds for awhile and finally spray.

So in a very rare moment of clarity I fired the agronomist and quit spraying, I don’t care how many flee beetles I see. If I have to reseed I’ll reseed but haven’t had to yet. Saving nothing but money.

Joking aside in my opinion the most important trait when selecting a variety is early season vigor. That means overcoming the extreme mental deficiency that causes you to grow Nexerra’s of any kind.

I do like Lumiderm though as cutworms have gotten to be a bigger problem here every year, and so far it does a good job of that. I miss spraying Lorsban though, I liked the headaches and the extra finger that I was starting to grow.

Was kinda like that here for lygus bugs about 10/12 yrs ago. Agronomists and reps out scaring everyone how bad it was gonna be and we all panicked. A couple years dang near every acre got sprayed, planes buzzing everywhere. They showed up to do a field accross the road from my house and the wind was just howling, blowing right to my yard. Checked a few days later, still lots of bugs. I decided then I could risk a bit of canola damage in exchange for reducing health risks. Everyone else must have figured the same too because I havent seen a field sprayed in 8 or 9 yrs now. And yes they cause some damage but dont feel it is economically justified to spray, here.

Have only sprayed flea beetles once on a cold dry spring. I think we are fortunate here with the longer winters and colder nights and don't have the insect pressure that some areas do.