Praise be to Farmaholic

[burnt]

Everybody makes a contribution to the forum.

I miss farmaholic's.

Those heart-rending Slum of the Ghetto reports - well if it's that tough to make a living there, maybe we should pass the hat for him so he can pay his hydro bill and get back on the web....

[furrowtickler]

Especially when the regenerative ag people like to use livestock to reach their goal.

Was wondering how efficient and or effective is Regen Ag without livestock?
As I stated before , I think regenerative Ag is a great fit for some but should not be a model for all . Parts of it yup , but if it’s only truly effective with livestock it’s not ever going to be all encompassing with the new plant based idealists agendas . Food for thought .

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Was wondering how efficient and or effective is Regen Ag without livestock?
As I stated before , I think regenerative Ag is a great fit for some but should not be a model for all . Parts of it yup , but if it’s only truly effective with livestock it’s not ever going to be all encompassing with the new plant based idealists agendas . Food for thought .

That's depends, how many vegans do you want squatting in your fields (both figuratively and literally )Closing the loop on the nutrients.

[Blaithin]

Was wondering how efficient and or effective is Regen Ag without livestock?
As I stated before , I think regenerative Ag is a great fit for some but should not be a model for all . Parts of it yup , but if it’s only truly effective with livestock it’s not ever going to be all encompassing with the new plant based idealists agendas . Food for thought .

I think any healthy soil farming (which should be a goal on some level) is going to need some sort of animal input. Doesn’t necessarily have to be livestock but lots of little animals live in the soil and should start to be considered. Yeah the easiest way to get quick results is add larger animals, grazers are keystone species to healthy ecosystems for a reason, but they don’t need to be a consistently active member.

Lots of regenerative geared folks will say a big key is flexibility, do what works for you, when, and the goal is to try and help the soil regenerate. The name kind of gives it away.

Most modern farming doesn’t regenerate anything, the main goal is to try and break even. Put in as much as you took out so you can hopefully get the same results. And you need to put it in, there’s no chance the soil can supply its own needs. There’s no symbiosis in a monocrop field.

Regenerative arable is still very much in its infancy. That’s a high input industry that is stuck in its own cycle. Hard to break out of for a number of reasons. Different options are around but each farm would have to research and trial and error their way to a method that works for them. And yea, it’s almost guaranteed to lower the yield of one crop. The mentality has to switch more to savings of inputs, ROI, and yield per acre of everything, not just single crops.

But that’s a hard leap of faith when all the payments for land and equipment and inputs, etc. are based on the highest yields achievable through pushing with those inputs. I think that’s why it’s easier for smaller, and especially easier for newer, farmers to give it a go. They aren’t as tethered to the eternal hamster wheel of payments. Yet.

If any arable farm can have even a small section of land, 20, 40, even 60 acres that they can dedicate to an experiment field... I think that would be the neatest thing ever. I know lots of farmers that play around with variety trials and spray trials... I don’t know of any that play around with a small field to see if they can cut down on inputs by implementing more regen geared practices. Since regen is such a long term game I think it would be better to focus on one specific place and see if that soil can be built up and weaned off inputs instead of moving the experiment around to different land. That wouldn’t really give you any results. But 3, 5, 10 years on 20 acres.... that could have some potentially interesting stuff come out of it and hopefully not be too time consuming or fiscally draining because it’s a small piece.

But... it’s easy for me to dream about how other people could play with their land 😂😂

[furrowtickler]

I think any healthy soil farming (which should be a goal on some level) is going to need some sort of animal input. Doesn’t necessarily have to be livestock but lots of little animals live in the soil and should start to be considered. Yeah the easiest way to get quick results is add larger animals, grazers are keystone species to healthy ecosystems for a reason, but they don’t need to be a consistently active member.

Lots of regenerative geared folks will say a big key is flexibility, do what works for you, when, and the goal is to try and help the soil regenerate. The name kind of gives it away.

Most modern farming doesn’t regenerate anything, the main goal is to try and break even. Put in as much as you took out so you can hopefully get the same results. And you need to put it in, there’s no chance the soil can supply its own needs. There’s no symbiosis in a monocrop field.

Regenerative arable is still very much in its infancy. That’s a high input industry that is stuck in its own cycle. Hard to break out of for a number of reasons. Different options are around but each farm would have to research and trial and error their way to a method that works for them. And yea, it’s almost guaranteed to lower the yield of one crop. The mentality has to switch more to savings of inputs, ROI, and yield per acre of everything, not just single crops.

But that’s a hard leap of faith when all the payments for land and equipment and inputs, etc. are based on the highest yields achievable through pushing with those inputs. I think that’s why it’s easier for smaller, and especially easier for newer, farmers to give it a go. They aren’t as tethered to the eternal hamster wheel of payments. Yet.

If any arable farm can have even a small section of land, 20, 40, even 60 acres that they can dedicate to an experiment field... I think that would be the neatest thing ever. I know lots of farmers that play around with variety trials and spray trials... I don’t know of any that play around with a small field to see if they can cut down on inputs by implementing more regen geared practices. Since regen is such a long term game I think it would be better to focus on one specific place and see if that soil can be built up and weaned off inputs instead of moving the experiment around to different land. That wouldn’t really give you any results. But 3, 5, 10 years on 20 acres.... that could have some potentially interesting stuff come out of it and hopefully not be too time consuming or fiscally draining because it’s a small piece.

But... it’s easy for me to dream about how other people could play with their land 😂😂

Many grain farms , including ours , continuously are trying small acre projects to try and improve rotations and profitability. Yes the very large farms most likely don’t waste time with small acre plots .

[Blaithin]

Many grain farms , including ours , continuously are trying small acre projects to try and improve rotations and profitability. Yes the very large farms most likely don’t waste time with small acre plots .

Yes, improve profitability, but have you tried more regenerative style stuff? Multi crops, inter crops, cover crops, compost tea, run a herd of cows over it for two days, etc.

Usually it’s projects to test out new and improved sprays or new to them varieties or a new crop they haven’t grown before that could be added into rotation. Sometimes it’s a test of different inputs based on a soil test... a new blend of macro and micro nutrients to go on sort of idea. This is becoming more and more common.

These are all great and I do nerd out when people bring their trial books to the elevator and I get to see how the trial areas equate on a grade level as well... but I can’t say that testing out multi species crops is a common one. Except in silages, I do know a number of people who experiment with those. Sadly most do it one year... it doesn’t work amazingly, and they call it quits for the hassle, so no tweaking is done to see if hassle can be reduced and no long term benefits are able to be seen that might make hassle worth it.

I think equipment is the greatest limiting factor. It costs a bundle and is very specialized. Hard to adjust what is already owned to small trial plots of randomness and small plots can’t justify the purchase of its own type of expensive equipment. Poly crops also tend to require cleaning which is a pita. Inter row crops... again new equipment is generally needed. It’d be ideal if it was slightly more common so people could access demos or loaners or something on those lines but that doesn’t even seem very feasible. Livestock are actually usually the cheapest and most easily accessible thing to find to work with that you can actually get paid for allowing to have access to your land. But they come with their own issues.

Definitely not an easy path to try and follow. Needs energy and passion and some dedication. Can’t fault most people for not wanting to try. (I just fault the extra crusty ones that constantly preach it’s impossible 😅😅😇)

[furrowtickler]

That’s why we bought a planter , gives us the option to try alternative rows . Small , quick and effective. Many others are looking the options you describe.
But it takes time and effort like you say .
But to transition like this article suggests on the massive amount of acres in western Canada in the perceived timeline will not happen .
Regenerative Ag will work for those interested, but should not be a forced role model for all . JMO . And that’s the idea behind that article . There are other ways to improve soil health and reduce inputs .

We don’t run cattle , no fencing , corals, zero infrastructure. Just looking at multicrop combos and soil amendments.
More than one way to skin a cat so to speak .