Open Challenge....Verifying claims with actual Grid Tie energy production.

[chuckChuck]

Thanks for the numbers. So that works out to just under 16% of the nameplate capacity.

Can you explain how that is saving CO2 emissions when the natural gas power plants that are backing up the intermittent and unreliable solar output are still running 100% of the time as spinning reserve waiting for your solar to stop producing without notice. Which it spends much more time doing than it does producing. 16%, that is not a typo. So on average, it produces at full capacity for 3 hours and 50 miutes per day.

Sounds correct except that solar and wind systems don't stop without notice all the time. If you have enough of them spread out over various geographical areas then weather forecasts and conditions can be used for planning.

As far as the nameplate capacity I will trust you can do math. No surprises here, I think most solar owners already know this.

So gas plants running 100% of time? Nope they dont because they also shut down for maintenance service and rebuilds. So lets pick 85% as a guess for nameplate capacity.

And when a gas plant is running, is it running at full capacity with full fuel usage all the time? Nope. They ramp them up and down depending upon demand and what other sources are providing. I think that is one of the advantages of gas over coal. Quicker and easier to adjust output.

So how much carbon is saved when fossil plants are running anyway at some level and solar or wind are replacing fossil output? That's a very good question.

I am sure it depends on fuel type, fuel mix, generation sources and each individual utility system design and operation.

The main point is that a smart grid incorporating various forms of generation including low carbon sources that is designed and operated well will cut fossil fuel usage and carbon emissions as non carbon emitting sources provide more generation capacity. Otherwise why would Saskpower be planning to install lots of intermittent wind in a bid to reduce carbon emissions?

Isn't that the reason why Australian coal generation systems are losing money because renewables are reducing the amount of electricity they supply and can market? They are burning less coal are they not?

[oneoff]

Despite what chuck says; it is possible to fairly compare Grid tied systems as to their capabilities.

Be that as it may; it appears chuck concedes as to "losing" . What remains is a fairly reasonable claim of what will be no more than estimated INTERMITTENT 35000 Kw per year from a 25 KW array; thus an estimated average of 35000/8760 hours per year would be almost exactly 4 KW/hour. That in line with a industry average of 15 % production expectation which yields an anticipated 37500 Kw

It is also true that any grid tie inverter has built in monitoring software for both instantaneous wattage output; daily; weekly and yearly and lifetime energy records. That WOULD also suffice to enter the challenge.

But if the rules are further changed then I must note that my total energy production is not what I have originally given.

The 100 KW genset/inverter (functionally equivalent to the 25Kw solar array/inverter setup) is producing 480 V 3 phase (line to line) at a power factor of 0.8. A clamp on ammeter currently shows amps flowing in each of the three phases of 65.7A, 46.2A and 54.5A Taking an average of about 55 A and plugging this data into an online Amps to KW calculator yields a generator loading of about 36.6 kw.
Times that by close to 8760 hours in a year and you get 360540KW annual production Can't find the calculator!

With an adequately sized generator and the necessary gas supply; this electrical output can and does additionally supply aeration fans and any other connected load. That is an undeniable. It also can not be duplicated with a shining more sunlight on a 25 KW solar project.

So a marginal oil well with what was considered totally insignificant gas production is currently producing almost 10 times the average output of a 25 Kw rated solar array. And not that the 100 KW genset is stressed and not that the gas supply has been depleted nor the oil tank quit rumbling..

It still would be extremely educational for the audience of only one so far to admit to themselves (and share with the general public) the performance of the solution they would have everyone repeat.
I look forward to honest daily solar production information so we can all fairly evaluate different scenarios on an apple to apple basis of any variety that is chosen.

[jazz]

Thanks oneoff. I dont have solar but I appreciate you keeping chuck tied up in this thread. He has never posted any of his solar fantasy numbers or even any from his farm operations.

Conclusion: delusional activist

[chuckChuck]

Those are impressive numbers.

Using natural gas to generate electricity in a cogeneration system instead of seeing it lost to the atmosphere or wasted with flaring is a great use. At a utility level Saskpower is adding natural gas plants.

But what is the cost of your generation system, installation, maintenance and what value do you use for the gas burned or cost of operating an oil well? What would be an estimate of the cost of each Kwh?

How many systems such as this are operating on farms in Saskatchewan?

It would be possible to install a gas fired generator on most farms using gas supplied by Sask Energy. It might be possible to go off the electrical grid using solar and natural gas generation. But when your generator falls apart you still need the grid for backup. Or another generator. Gas fired backup generators are becoming more common.

[chuckChuck]

Thanks oneoff. I dont have solar but I appreciate you keeping chuck tied up in this thread. He has never posted any of his solar fantasy numbers or even any from his farm operations.

Conclusion: delusional activist

Jazz, Trump won right! And covid has gone away! Actually I think Covid has won and Trump is going away. Need I say more? LMAO

[Guest]

Why in the world wouldn’t every gas well that is flaring have a gen set running off of it ?

[chuckChuck]

Its a good question. The technology exists and has been used but H2S and dirty gas that needs to be refined are an issue I believe. Perhaps Oneoff can comment.

[jazz]

Why in the world wouldn’t every gas well that is flaring have a gen set running off of it ?

Case, its uneconomical.

You have 2 choices, genset at every well and then run power lines to get the power out of every location and then to the main grid, or buried PE lines to gather the gas up to a central location and then grid tie.

These wells are too spread out and the gas supply too uncertain to make it all work.

The gas is also sour and wet so it has to be fractionated and scrubbed before it can run through a genset.

[oneoff]

Glad to see the flurry of interest and good comments. I have to get some work done this warm afternoon but will make it a priority to pick away at some replies this evening. This concept performs beyond expectations given all the right circumstances. For someone who doesn't have the right gas supply source; nor is capable of being a battery operator; and can't overhaul equipment; or wants a free source of energy; and lacks the patience to develop a project; then partner or become involved with those who have those skills and prerequisites.....or else it will be a drawn out failure

[TASFarms]

There is a few bitcoin miners running on oil leases. The miners are on pads that make enough gas to run a Genest.

My biggest concern with solar is how long do the inverters last?