Open Challenge....Verifying claims with actual Grid Tie energy production.

[oneoff]

Very well said
And also 100% correct that Sask Power has no storage capability. And it will be a game changer the day we have affordable batteries or any other alternative serving that function which provides cheap, viable,pollution free,environmentally friendly near unlimited storage capability etc. But that is on a lot of "to do" lists and no doubt will come only sometime in the future. Best regards.

[burnt]

Thank you for this thread, oneoff.

In just a few exchanges, you have demonstrated a concrete argument that couldn't be won with a million wise words.

Just consider it your Christmas gift to all Agrivillagers!

[Guest]

Current meter reading as of yesterday:
del -60161
rec - 43963

As I have already explained the net meters don't record solar power that is used first on site before the meter. It only records electricity produced in excess of consumption and what is delivered when demand exceeds supply or the solar is not generating.

In my case the harvest of 2019 resulted in way above average annual consumption for drying grain with fans.

There is no need to report daily amounts from solar in December because the kwh produced is very small as we both know. Ideally we should be collecting the production data with a data connection which is possible. But I don't have that option. You can go to any solar site that does post their data if you are interested in daily reports.

You won the production challenge. Congratulations!

But you didn't deny that Saskatchewan farmers already receive a subsidized farm rate below what it costs to deliver electricity to a relatively small number of widely dispersed customers. Agree or disagree?

But what about the carbon emission counter challenge?

You going to ignore my counter challenge?

How much carbon dioxide equivalent did you emit?

Chuck I done some checking back on our power usage history
Are you saying you used 60161 KWH ? Or do I have this wrong, In a year ?
This seems impossible for a farm your size
We are sitting at 21000, house , 2 heated shops , grain dryer used lots ,and fans used sparingly
Do you have electric heat , electric water heater?
And even more than that I guess if your solar used doesnt get counted ?
Wow, i would be askin some questions if this is as it seems ?
Maybe it’s a scam so they get your solar generation for free
Seems impossible?
Sask power will come out and check your meter and try to help you conserve , we get them out every couple years to keep up with new cost saving measures

[AlbertaFarmer5]

And he had the nerve to lecture the rest of us about finding efficiencies. Accused us of leaving block heaters plugged in.
I would suggest he has been growing some of the illegal crop, but it is no longer illegal.

[poorboy]

There are 2 different arguments going on here and it is important to separate them.

1. Is solar good for your farm. The answer to that is probably yes. At current pricing, there is probably a savings in Farm power bills over the year as compared to grid power only. Using flare gas is also good for your farm, but the costs are harder to calculate as the long term costs of being an oil company and genset maintenance are not fully known. Doing gas generation on sales gas from a pipeline might be totally different costs.

2. The second argument going on is if solar and other intermittent power sources are good for the whole electrical system for everyone. The intermittent nature of wind and sun/clouds means that storage is needed in good batteries or in hydro dams or duplicate coal/natural gas power needs to be running at the same time as solar/wind power is producing as a backup. Until that virtually free backup power magically appears, it seems that provinces or countries with surplus hydro power will benefit more from solar and wind power than other areas.

Just looking at my farm and the current way my power bill works, it might make sense economically for me to put in a solar panel or wind mill. Looking at if from a provincial standpoint with limited hydro power, it does not make sense to have solar and wind power UNTIL we get cheap backup power storage so that duplicate power production is not needed.

[chuckChuck]

Case the meter reading is cumulative with 2 years of production and consumption. So in the last 2 years I used only 16198 kwh more than I produced, 8099 kwh per year.

It does not record the solar used on site. It only records consumption above what the solar is providing or when it is not running. It also records any surplus sent into the grid.

My average annual usage for 3 years prior to installing the solar was about 35000 kwh.

We run alot of aeration fans on grain bins some years In 2019 consumption because of fans was high. In 2020 consumption will be back to much lower levels because of a dry harvest.

[Guest]

Ok , makes more sense
Yea those fans are killers
Ours used to be somewhere like what you are saying but after we put the dryer in it dropped to 21-25000 ave yearly
Those fans are the worst power users on farms in my opinion
We start drying in august and I think it pays
You could probably knock 25-30% off power bill with a dryer
Too bad they wouldn’t expand gas service

[shtferbrains]

Chuck you might want to read up on the western interconnection.
Lots of good data there.
It is the intercomection of the western states and BC and Alberta that share the power grid supplying 80 million people.
Most recent utilization rate for solar is 23% year round or 27% summer and 13% winter on the whole grid.
It appears solar is getting the most new capacity but still produces less than 20% of the net production.
Solar has a great political push IMHO.
When we invest billions in a 13% utilization it needs a lot of political help.

[chuckChuck]

Thanks for your post poorboy.

Solar is less favoured than wind in the renewable options in Saskatchewan. And you are correct hydro,fossil fuels and imports have to cover peak demand when renewables are not producing much.

The province is grappling with the need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and the phase out of coal. That's why they are building gas plants and adding significant wind capacity.

They have tried carbon capture and storage (CCS) on Boundary but it was an expensive option. They may still consider CCS for Shand but Saskpower says it doesn't make economic sense. But politics may prevail.

They are currently adding more gas fired plants and increasing imports from Manitoba hydro.

At the time Shand was built, an east west grid system connecting to Manitoba Hydros hydro electricity would have provided cheaper cleaner hydro. But the leadership of the day wanted the economic benefits of building coal capacity in Saskatchewan.

Manitoba still has a surplus of hydro and could build more. Manitoba has had cheaper rates than Saskatchewan for decades. We paid a premium for coal fired electricity when hydro imports were cheaper and on our door steps.

[farming101]

King Island, Tasmania
Off topic and totally distracting to watch..

Looks like their anemometer is busted and they're out of biodiesel

https://www.hydro.com.au/clean-energy/hybrid-energy-solutions/success-stories/king-island https://www.hydro.com.au/clean-energy/hybrid-energy-solutions/success-stories/king-island

[chuckChuck]

Chuck you might want to read up on the western interconnection.
Lots of good data there.
It is the intercomection of the western states and BC and Alberta that share the power grid supplying 80 million people.
Most recent utilization rate for solar is 23% year round or 27% summer and 13% winter on the whole grid.
It appears solar is getting the most new capacity but still produces less than 20% of the net production.
Solar has a great political push IMHO.
When we invest billions in a 13% utilization it needs a lot of political help.

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes lots of good information on their website broken down by state. You can really see the large and growing roles that wind and solar play in some states.

Here is the website:

https://www.wecc.org/Pages/home.aspx https://www.wecc.org/Pages/home.aspx

[chuckChuck]

Great post Farming 101.

Its currently 2:00 am in Tasmania, so no solar if you were wondering why.

Here is a little bit more info on King Island:

Why King Island?

As a remote island community, King Island is not connected to a mainland electricity supply. Electricity on the island was generated entirely from diesel fuel, from the 6 megawatt (MW) power station; serving 12 gigawatt hours (GWh) of annual customer demand and peaking at 2.5 MW.

The King Island Renewable Integration Project (KIREIP) was an initiative of Hydro Tasmania, with the assistance of the Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA) to develop a world-leading, hybrid off-grid power system to supply 65% of King Island’s energy needs using renewable energy. The system is capable of 100% renewable operation, the first megawatt class off-grid system with this capability in the world.

King Island has a world-leading hybrid power system that provides reliable and secure electricity supply using a high proportion of renewable energy (65% per annum). When conditions are suitable our hybrid power system delivers 100% of island's power from renewable sources, reducing diesel fuel costs.

The system has, on average, more than 20% per annum of 'diesel-off' or 100% renewable operation, including periods of several continuous days with no use of diesel generation, a world record for a grid of this scale.

KIREIP was awarded the Energy Supply Association of Australia (ESAA) Innovation Award 2013 and the United Nations Association of Australia World Environment Day Award 2014.

[farming101]

On King Island the chances of a person freezing to death are non existent. Hypothermia sure...
Of interest to me....

They get the majority of their power from renewables.
The diesel component is non-replaceable with present technology.
There are 1600 people on the island.
The project cost 17.65 M AUD https://arena.gov.au/projects/king-island-renewable-energy-integration-project/ https://arena.gov.au/projects/king-island-renewable-energy-integration-project/
The real time readout shows that, in effect, diesel fuel is being used to charge the batteries. This is reasonable because the batteries are an integral part of the system's design. They are needed and cannot be allowed to run down.
When it comes to producing "work worthy" energy nothing is free and there has to be an abundance and uninterrupted supply for a jurisdiction to thrive

[chuckChuck]

What they have also done on King Island is show that renewables can be safely integrated into grid systems and that renewables in some locations can provide the majority of the electricity and at sometimes all of the electricity required.

Agreed, they still require backup. They are in a more favourable climate. The cost is high. But maybe cheaper than laying underwater cables from the mainland?

So can we use renewables in Saskatchewan? Saskpower must think so because they are building several wind farms to do just that.

[shtferbrains]

What they have also done on King Island is show that renewables can be safely integrated into grid systems and that renewables in some locations can provide the majority of the electricity and at sometimes all of the electricity required.

Agreed, they still require backup. They are in a more favourable climate.

So can we use renewables in Saskatchewan? Saskpower must think so because they are building several wind farms to do just that.

You don't think politics is the sole driver on the wind farms?