Open Challenge....Verifying claims with actual Grid Tie energy production.

[chuckChuck]

You will have to ask Sask Power and The Sask Party that question. They are the ones that are building them.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

You don't think politics is the sole driver on the wind farms?

I wish I could find the article now, but can't.
It was by a former worker of the Rostelmash combine factory in Russia. Going through how they were producing record number of combines to meet the bureaucratic quotas imposed on them. How quality, longevity, functionality etc were nearly irrelevant, only numbers in a top down system where politicians impose their will on industry, regardless of cost, or benefit or need or efficiency.
The article went on to explain how in those times the Soviet Union was large importer of grain, in spite of all of the quotas and mandates, and record breaking combine production. Then showed how things changed when the system finally collapsed. How they are now forced to make a quality product with longevity and functionality that has to compete with imported machinery. How few combines they make now, even considering the size difference, yet how much more grain they harvest. Going from an importer to exporter of grain.
Just because government mandates something, doesn't mean it is efficient, viable, sustainable, or even logical. In fact in most cases it is almost certain to be none of the above.

[chuckChuck]

So please explain why Saskpowers Crown Corporation farm rates are cheaper than Alberta's farm rates from a privatized electrical system?

[oneoff]

You will have to ask Sask Power and The Sask Party that question. They are the ones that are building them.

Here's some thoughts mat I believe to be facts.

With perhaps a rare exception...which is not the norm.. no new small scale grid tied wind projects of the size of chucks or even my project size have been grid tired in Sask for some months . Nor they will be in the future. I truly wish I were wrong and that anyone could point future wannabe farmers to try out small scale net metering via a farm setup costing less than 6 digits and within reach of any telehandler in the world.

The fact is that there are no CSA appoved inverters available for sale. PERIOD. Ego no acceptance by inspectors. But there further reasons why...and they rely on practicality; alternatives; economics and common sense.

And again I'd be the happiest person ever proven wrong. So

SECONDLY: The sound facts are that any knowledgeable person who is not first and foremost a salesman/promoter/denier/believer would fully honestly tell you; that barring exceptional circumstances; everyone contemplating small grid tied wind project(with above rare exceptions) would not spend a dime on Grid Tied small scale wind production. And to distract with some densely populated never heard of island with different options is really being that despised salesman.

The fact is that some decades of actual experience (some even in this province; and even by Sask Power maybe at you local curling rink; has already found...................................everyone concerned would be more satisfied in many possible different ways if they were to invest their environmental electrical generation budget (Net Metering Grid Tied) in with some alternate solar etc project.

Please No comments about large scale Wind Farms. None of above applies and any farmer building such a personal project only means they have have deep pockets and certainly most probably didn't properly site it well off their farm location where it would have had a good chance to break even or preferably pay some returns.

[oneoff]

So please explain why Saskpowers Crown Corporation farm rates are cheaper than Alberta's farm rates from a privatized electrical system?

As of the Dec1/2020 effective date of power bills in Sask; the Sask advantage looks to have diverged a further 10%. While a person could be mistaken; it looks like they are also crediting the 10% on the Net Metering output; which also appears as Carbon Tax free; doesn't attract the GST and becomes so confusing that an accountant would have to get used to the billing.

Bottom line is that at only $30 dollars per ton Carbon Tax....to most probably become $170 in a period of only 9 years a lot of people had better change their budgets.

Also giving support and additional meaning to the adage. "It was raised because it could be raised" (or lowered)

[oneoff]

Dec 24 5:00am Net Meter at remains at 212 withdrawn and 5005 Kwh injec ted.. Douuble check wit raw outputs of Inverter#1 at 3883 Kwh total Inv #2 showing 1298 and Inverter#3 showing only 815 KWh due to its present transformer limitation.

[chuckChuck]

Oneoff quote "And to distract with some densely populated never heard of island with different options is really being that despised salesman." Huh?

Why are you dismissing Hydro Tasmania's King Island Project? It has a real time dashboard that shows current contributions from wind, solar, diesel generation and a battery, plus 2 stabilizing features.

It does in one package what you have been trying to show with your production challenge - demonstrate the relative potential or lack of potential and contributions of renewable and non-renewable generation.

Its a relatively small grid project in a very different climate. Until Farming 101 posted the dashboard I had never heard of it.

King Island has little in common with Saskatchewan, except Saskpower is also planning on integrating several large wind projects and a small amount of solar.

King Island shows that renewables can reduce reliance on fossil fuels and reduce carbon emissions.

I am not going to let you get away so easily with a very shallow dismissal. I think the only reason you don't want to learn anything from The King Island Renewable Energy Integration Project (KIREIP) is because it doesn't fit with your opinion that renewables have little value or never can be part of Saskatchewan's present and future.

Take a look at the dashboard below and project description. Its very interesting and informative for those with an open mind.

https://www.hydro.com.au/clean-energy/hybrid-energy-solutions/success-stories/king-island https://www.hydro.com.au/clean-energy/hybrid-energy-solutions/success-stories/king-island

Merry Christmas!

[chuckChuck]

https://arena.gov.au/projects/king-island-renewable-energy-integration-project/ https://arena.gov.au/projects/king-island-renewable-energy-integration-project/

Summary

This project demonstrates a world-leading power system that combines several renewable energy technologies, smart tech integrations and energy management technologies. The system will supply over 65% of King Island’s annual energy needs using renewable energy, reducing CO2 emissions by more than 95%. (using Bio-Diesel)

Need
Communities like King Island, which are not connected to the electricity grid, rely heavily on diesel-generated electricity. It is difficult to integrate large amounts of renewable energy into such power systems without impacting on reliability or supply. Overcoming these integration problems will significantly reduce this community’s dependence on diesel, lower energy production costs and reduce carbon dioxide emissions.

Project innovation

This project demonstrates a world-leading power system that will supply over 65% of King Island’s energy needs using renewable energy, thereby reducing carbon dioxide emissions by more than 95%.

The way in which the technologies are used and integrated is world-leading and will provide a reliable and stable electricity supply using a high proportion of renewable energy.

The new power system is a unique combination of several technologies. The renewable energy technologies being used are well-established – wind, solar (PV) and bio diesel. These are combined with new and emerging enabling and storage technologies. The system includes battery energy storage, a diesel-based Uninterruptible Power Supply (D-UPS), a smart grid system and an advanced control system.

The inclusion of the smart grid system helps to match the island’s energy needs with the available renewable energy supplies.
Benefit

The project allows the power system to rely less on diesel generation and provide a reliable and stable electricity supply while significantly reducing CO2 emissions.

The project increased awareness in other communities with similar off-grid systems on how renewable energy sources and enabling technology can provide reliable electricity generation. the lessons from this project have been directly incorporated into the Flinders Island Hybrid Energy Hub and Rottnest Island Water and Renewable Energy Nexus

[farming101]

While it is of great interest to see the technology in operation at King Island, also know that it would be impossible to use their setup with its great cost in Saskatchewan.
The scenarios are as different as night and day.
Sask Power supplies 2,000 times more electricity annually, for starters

[Guest]

[QUOTE=AlbertaFarmer5;480228]I wish I could find the article now, but can't.
It was by a former worker of the Rostelmash combine factory in Russia. Going through how they were producing record number of combines to meet the bureaucratic quotas imposed on them. How quality, longevity, functionality etc were nearly irrelevant, only numbers in a top down system where politicians impose their will on industry, regardless of cost, or benefit or need or efficiency.
The article went on to explain how in those times the Soviet Union was large importer of grain, in spite of all of the quotas and mandates, and record breaking combine production. Then showed how things changed when the system finally collapsed. How they are now forced to make a quality product with longevity and functionality that has to compete with imported machinery. How few combines they make now, even considering the size difference, yet how much more grain they harvest. Going from an importer to exporter of grain.
Just because government mandates something, doesn't mean it is efficient, viable, sustainable, or even logical. In fact in most cases it is almost certain to be none of the above.[/quotas imposed on them.

“How quality, longevity, functionality etc were nearly irrelevant, only numbers in a top down system where politicians impose their will on industry, regardless of cost, or benefit or need or efficiency”

Sounds a lot like this bullshit DEF that was forced on us

[chuckChuck]

Yes I know that. But Sask power is also using wind and planning on adding a lot more so there are lessons for the integration of wind power, storage and stabilization.

Texas, North Dakota also have lots of wind power. Texas for obvious reasons is adding lots of solar.

But there are several posters on Agriville who say renewables like wind and solar don't work!

King Island proves they are very wrong.

[Guest]

But , they are replacing a diesel gen set
That makes perfect sense
If only there was some other way ?
Nuclear , maybe ?
Oh wait ........

[oneoff]

Ok I will look up the population density of King Island; compare it to Sask land mass; check its minimum and maximum temperatures; whether its considered a developed country how much primary production they produce, export and manufacture....and I hope that this time would have been better invested in rewatching a MIT Lecture "On Future of Energy Storage'

I know that Youtube production does have complete real world application for King Island and also situations such as Alaska; Canada and every other country in between.

If King Island has been successful (and if I've been successful in some small personal way) in the big scheme of things; neither of those limited successes is a significant contribution to rger scale world solution.

There is still a major difference overlooked (albiet on a miniscule scale) and that is the difference between essential baseload continuous production versus intermittent supplies of electrical energy (at present lacking a near term practical energy "storage" component.)
But glad to hear it works for King Island. Even more glad if their experience could apply to Sask. But I don't dwell on getting excited on ideas that haven't yet stood the test of time. You know....like a 20 year mean time between failures or unknown life expectancy until obsolete etc.
Thats a challenge that lies at the core of solar and wind renewable generation....and with hydro, geothermal; nuclear and natural gas their problems are largely known. What are the "bridges" required and what do we need to rely on those for base loads in the long term (if solar and wind are to ever become baseload supplies)

Coal is dying and dead. Nat gas has been targeted in same way; just a short time longer. Watch that research video and report what is learned.

[oneoff]

Dec 26/2020 5:40am Update Utility meter read 212Kwh delivered (no change).....5583 Kwh received (since about Dec 16/2020. (Individual inverters now show 4154Kwh 1569 Kwh and 892 Kwh. production to date. Still looking for that $5 isolation transformer that would seemlessly supply at least 3 more Sask residences for hopefully some continuous decades at zero extra costs; strain on resources or trouble of hopefully any kind. Perhaps that transformer would be worth a whole lot more than $5... but I'm hanging tough for two more weeks then will reconsider.


The other Net Meter farmsite location yesterday showed 4 Kwh delivered and 23088 Kwh produced (and dare I say) and USED by all other electrical utility customers since the first week in July 2020.

Maybe it could be looked at as paying off that 61 cent a watt grant that hasn't yet been received. Not worried yet though.

[Guest]

what a great project, you should be able to get 40-50,000 hours out of those gen sets before rebuilds, running on that fuel ?