A climate success story: How Alberta got off coal power

[oneoff]

"What does renewable energy mean for utility bills?
In Alberta’s deregulated market, the system operator chooses electricity from the lowest-bidding power producers first, working its way up to more expensive bidders until demand is met. The most expensive generator chosen sets the hourly price at which all selected producers are paid. As renewable have no fuel costs, their producers bid at $0/MWh, and are selected first. Therefore, adding more renewables has the effect of drawing down electricity prices (Figure 5)"

So says the previous poster.

Here's a thought. There's no obligation for electrical power generators (solar, flare gas, geothermal to meet the "targets " they may apply to the utility to inject into the grid.


Just maybe that is a fatal flaw in the bidding process. Do you suppose that known intermittent supplies are worth only from some negative value; to zero value to a value always less than it costs to replace that which can't be provided on a demand basis.

The cure would be to penalize the cheaper winning bidders if they can't produce on a continuous basis or compensate for the production that the utility has to backup from the pool of producers who can provide reliable power........all the time.

Then we'd find out what produces the cheaper electricity

[chuckChuck]

Take it up with Alberta Electric System Operator (AESO). The Alberta government is the one who de regulated and set up the current market based system.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

"What does renewable energy mean for utility bills?
In Alberta’s deregulated market, the system operator chooses electricity from the lowest-bidding power producers first, working its way up to more expensive bidders until demand is met. The most expensive generator chosen sets the hourly price at which all selected producers are paid. As renewable have no fuel costs, their producers bid at $0/MWh, and are selected first. Therefore, adding more renewables has the effect of drawing down electricity prices (Figure 5)"

So says the previous poster.

Here's a thought. There's no obligation for electrical power generators (solar, flare gas, geothermal to meet the "targets " they may apply to the utility to inject into the grid.


Just maybe that is a fatal flaw in the bidding process. Do you suppose that known intermittent supplies are worth only from some negative value; to zero value to a value always less than it costs to replace that which can't be provided on a demand basis.

The cure would be to penalize the cheaper winning bidders if they can't produce on a continuous basis or compensate for the production that the utility has to backup from the pool of producers who can provide reliable power........all the time.

Then we'd find out what produces the cheaper electricity

And the simple solution is to demand thate every generating source has to bid including a dispatchable contingency reserve. The intermittent sources can then either install mythical battery technology, or install/partner with fossil fuel generation back up( which cannot rightly be called back up when in reality it will do most of the work most of the time). Then bid on a level playing field, without downloading the costs of the back up to the grid, and therefore to the consumer. If they can still compete, then that is good news for everyone, if they can't, then good news for the consumer who will no longer be subsidising them.

[chuckChuck]

Take a look.

[chuckChuck]

A $500 million dollar investment that proves once again that solar pv must not be viable in Alberta! LOL

https://greengatepower.com/travers-solar-465-mw https://greengatepower.com/travers-solar-465-mw

ABOUT THE TRAVERS SOLAR PROJECT

The Travers Solar Project (Project) began development in 2017 and includes approximately 3,330 acres of land located eight kilometres southwest of the Village of Lomond, in Vulcan County. The Project is located in Township 15, Ranges 20 and 21, west of the Fourth Meridian, on privately owned, cultivated and grazing land. The Project area has a strong solar resource, which is characteristic of Alberta’s resource, and the project will generate clean energy over its 35+ year lifetime. The Project is expected to be fully operational by Q4 2022.

The Project will be 465 megawatts (MW) in size and is anticipated to be under construction in late 2020. The Project involves installing solar PV modules, power conversion stations, an electrical collection system, access roads and the construction of the Little Bow Project Substation to connect to the Alberta Interconnected Electric System. During construction, the Project will look to the local community, where possible, for trades and other business opportunities.

[shtferbrains]

Take it up with Alberta Electric System Operator (AESO). The Alberta government is the one who de regulated and set up the current market based system.

Do they not have some very stiff mandates set by a more virtuous federal government who want to lead the world in virtue signaling but little else?

What are the current mandated "goals" that we are signed on to and how likely are we to make them?

[TASFarms]

A $500 million dollar investment that proves once again that solar pv must not be viable in Alberta! LOL

https://greengatepower.com/travers-solar-465-mw https://greengatepower.com/travers-solar-465-mw

ABOUT THE TRAVERS SOLAR PROJECT

The Travers Solar Project (Project) began development in 2017 and includes approximately 3,330 acres of land located eight kilometres southwest of the Village of Lomond, in Vulcan County. The Project is located in Township 15, Ranges 20 and 21, west of the Fourth Meridian, on privately owned, cultivated and grazing land. The Project area has a strong solar resource, which is characteristic of Alberta’s resource, and the project will generate clean energy over its 35+ year lifetime. The Project is expected to be fully operational by Q4 2022.

The Project will be 465 megawatts (MW) in size and is anticipated to be under construction in late 2020. The Project involves installing solar PV modules, power conversion stations, an electrical collection system, access roads and the construction of the Little Bow Project Substation to connect to the Alberta Interconnected Electric System. During construction, the Project will look to the local community, where possible, for trades and other business opportunities.

If it’s like Brooks solar farm the original owners backed out, money better spent somewhere else.

[oneoff]

JQUOTE Just like farmers, my self included, who receive a matching deposit subsidy into their AgriInvest account from the Federal government every year, I took advantage of the program. If you don't want to take advantage of either program, that is your choice.UNQUOTE

For the record....I don't covet any one else possessions. But don't EVER EVER again call me selfish for taking advantage of any taxpayer funded program...unless the selfish label applies to all who take advantage of grants, subsidies; incentives and tax dollars that just happens to benefit the same people, over and over and over.

[oneoff]

Take it up with Alberta Electric System Operator (AESO). The Alberta government is the one who de regulated and set up the current market based system.

That cop out has grown tired. Heard it before about Sask Power expertise. It can be difficult to gracefully back down when reputations are seen to be in danger. Even more so when it makes the boss look bad.

Some organizations have a vision and the capability to get it done. Just because a company; a crown corp or an organization lays down the rules doesn't necessarily mean their plan is best. Obvious shortcomings and flaws should be debated; and truly wise people can admit mistakes and incorporate changes that make a plan; a better plan.

[chuckChuck]

JQUOTE Just like farmers, my self included, who receive a matching deposit subsidy into their AgriInvest account from the Federal government every year, I took advantage of the program. If you don't want to take advantage of either program, that is your choice.UNQUOTE

For the record....I don't covet any one else possessions. But don't EVER EVER again call me selfish for taking advantage of any taxpayer funded program...unless the selfish label applies to all who take advantage of grants, subsidies; incentives and tax dollars that just happens to benefit the same people, over and over and over.

It is a bit more than hypocritical that farmers who have received government subsidies and support programs paid for by taxpayers over their career back as far as the 1970s,1980s to present, are now the ones who are complaining about development and support for renewable electricity generation systems.