A climate success story: How Alberta got off coal power

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Did your power go out when the wind started generating 800mw? Exactly how do you know how stable the system is or is not when your sitting in your house?

Even at 800 MW, it is still only ~7% of AB's power needs. Manageable with hot spinning reserve of fossil fuel plants. The dreamers who are advocating 100% zero emissions power sources in the near future would somehow remove those fossil fuel plants, and scale the wind and or solar up to 100%. So without fossil fuel back up, there would have needed to be 11,000 times more installed wind energy yesterday night just to keep the lights on, compared to what we have now. Within 12 hours when the wind started blowing, and that increased by 80,000%, it would produce more electricity than the entire north american electrical grid put together. That is not the model of stability, or reliability or cost effectiveness.

What we have now is manageable, if unneccesarily expensive. Try scaling it up and do the math. As California, Australia, Germany, Denmark etc. are learning.

[Guest]

the really stupid thing is ; wind doesn't usually blow at night , sun seldom shines in the middle of the night , the two really compliment each other ??
if only there was something like nuclear ? oh wait.........

[shtferbrains]

On the whole western interconnect solar runs at 13% of nameplate capacity this time of year.
That includes Arizona, Nevada, and most important California where they have huge investment in solar.

As AF5 points out you can't balance that.

Wind is some better but bigger dollars,big money only projects.

So when Chuck says solar is cheap, he is using capital costs ÷ nameplate capacity with no 13% productivity factored in ???

[Guest]

poor chucky , way too many details
he is probably hunting feverishly for comebacks
but they're aren't any

[chuckChuck]

Never said we can function with out a hydro or fossil fuel system backup.

Intermittent renewables can however reduce carbon emissions and are now in many cases the cheapest generation sources even if they require backup.

https://www.irena.org/publications/2020/Jun/Renewable-Power-Costs-in-2019 https://www.irena.org/publications/2020/Jun/Renewable-Power-Costs-in-2019

Newly installed renewable power capacity increasingly costs less than the cheapest power generation options based on fossil fuels. The cost data presented in this comprehensive study from the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) confirms how decisively the tables have turned.

More than half of the renewable capacity added in 2019 achieved lower electricity costs than new coal. New solar and wind projects are undercutting the cheapest of existing coal-fired plants, the report finds. Auction results show these favourable cost trends for renewables accelerating.

How did the UK hit a record 47% of its electricity from renewables in the first quarter of 2020 if wind and solar don't work? They have obviously found a way to make them work at a high level.

Renewables are being deployed at increasing rates in many countries which speaks for itself.

[Hamloc]

Never said we can function with out a hydro or fossil fuel system backup.

Intermittent renewables can however reduce carbon emissions and are now in many cases the cheapest generation sources even if they require backup.

https://www.irena.org/publications/2020/Jun/Renewable-Power-Costs-in-2019 https://www.irena.org/publications/2020/Jun/Renewable-Power-Costs-in-2019

Newly installed renewable power capacity increasingly costs less than the cheapest power generation options based on fossil fuels. The cost data presented in this comprehensive study from the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) confirms how decisively the tables have turned.

More than half of the renewable capacity added in 2019 achieved lower electricity costs than new coal. New solar and wind projects are undercutting the cheapest of existing coal-fired plants, the report finds. Auction results show these favourable cost trends for renewables accelerating.

How did the UK hit a record 47% of its electricity from renewables in the first quarter of 2020 if wind and solar don't work? They have obviously found a way to make them work at a high level.

Renewables are being deployed at increasing rates in many countries which speaks for itself.

With a little research Chuck the U.K has 4 sources of renewable energy, wind, solar, biomass and of course hydro. The 47% was achieved by wind alone but a combination of all 4. The U.K builds the majority of it’s wind farms off shore which I believe gives them a more dependable resource. Having said that power produced off the U.K coast is certainly not proof that it will work here.


Chuck you always maintain no one is proposing that all our electricity come from solar and wind. Have you ever read press releases from Greenpeace or Stand Earth etc., they certainly believe that the technology exists today to eliminate all sources of power generation other than solar and wind and the sooner the better. They also believe all indoor heating should be done with electricity, which would be prohibitively expensive. So I whole heartedly disagree that no one is promoting these intermittent power sources to our federal government as the only solution.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

With a little research Chuck the U.K has 4 sources of renewable energy, wind, solar, biomass and of course hydro. The 47% was achieved by wind alone but a combination of all 4. The U.K builds the majority of it’s wind farms off shore which I believe gives them a more dependable resource. Having said that power produced off the U.K coast is certainly not proof that it will work here.


Chuck you always maintain no one is proposing that all our electricity come from solar and wind. Have you ever read press releases from Greenpeace or Stand Earth etc., they certainly believe that the technology exists today to eliminate all sources of power generation other than solar and wind and the sooner the better. They also believe all indoor heating should be done with electricity, which would be prohibitively expensive. So I whole heartedly disagree that no one is promoting these intermittent power sources to our federal government as the only solution.

Included in that 47% is all of the wood chips sent from Canada and US. And don't forget about the plan to switch all transportation over to electricity. Chuck must not get invited to the meetings any more, he seems very out of touch.
And no, the wind doesn't work there either, as evidenced by the recent black outs.

And during their recent "wind week" where the wind forgot to blow, and coal took over:

[jazz]

AF thank you for your service. By continuing to engage an obtuse troll, you just let him stumble over himself every day.

So now he readily admits the entire renewable complex will need to have FF back up permanently.

So exactly how will solar and wind become cost competitive when we need to have 2 systems in place with one providing 100% backup to the other? All while subsidizing one source and penalizing the other?

Lets take that argument to its logical conclusion. It will take a doubling of Canadas electric capacity to power everything they plan to. Assume thats from solar and wind because no hydro dams or nukes will ever be built again, none are in even on the drawing board and need 10 yrs min to permit. That says nothing about the grid that needs to be expanded and beefed up. Who is going to let all those high lines across their land?

So to back that up we will have to increase our FF capacity to compensate for it? That means expanding that capacity as well to keep pace. God forbid we get a solar flare or something.

Like seriously how does a person like that function in the world?

[Guest]

This wood chip thing just blows my mind
That is the stupidest thing these climatards have ever come up with
Absolute lunacy ???
I mean , cut billions of trees down with faller bunchers , running on diesel , process them at great expense, haul them with trucks to port with diesel , then haul them across the ocean with diesel ?
What wrong with these idiots ?
Surely to Christ , I am missing something ?
And don’t trees help with the imaginary problem ?
I just don’t understand?

[Guest]

AF thank you for your service. By continuing to engage an obtuse troll, you just let him stumble over himself every day.

So now he readily admits the entire renewable complex will need to have FF back up permanently.

So exactly how will solar and wind become cost competitive when we need to have 2 systems in place with one providing 100% backup to the other? All while subsidizing one source and penalizing the other?

Lets take that argument to its logical conclusion. It will take a doubling of Canadas electric capacity to power everything they plan to. Assume thats from solar and wind because no hydro dams or nukes will ever be built again, none are in even on the drawing board and need 10 yrs min to permit. That says nothing about the grid that needs to be expanded and beefed up. Who is going to let all those high lines across their land?

So to back that up we will have to increase our FF capacity to compensate for it? That means expanding
that capacity as well to keep pace. God forbid we get a solar flare or something.

Like seriously how does a person like that function in the world?

Umm , seriously , have you looked around lately ???
Common sense , critical thinking , these things aren’t very common any more