No pressure eh !

[Hamloc]

Good point ...getting over the Rush Lake hill requires some power....and as stated numerous times I can see the mainline rail all the way to Swift Current...

When an average farm around here has built the equivalent multiples of old wooden elevators you have to wonder what the end game is to force farmers to ruin roads trucking grain...let me rephrase that....what is the difference between three tons at wooden elevators and super Bs at a terminal....other than the fact the cost has been downloaded to farmers....in storage, trucks and fuel...

I don't think the wooden elevator type system will come back but having 6 terminals consolidating within city's limits seems odd ... the labour issue shouldn't be a deal breaker...especially now.

Bucket I have to agree with Blaithin on this one. My guess is it just wasn’t making money. Locally Richardson just closed a fertilizer outlet. This site has existed for roughly 40 years and has had many owners. I get along well with the manager and he said they sold just over $6 million dollars a year of product but for the site to make money they would have had to sell twice that. I wasn’t that impressed as the nearest Richardson fertilizer dealer is now 30 minutes further away. Undoubtedly lots of dealers to choose from in my area but this one was very convenient for me as it was 15 minutes away.

[farmaholic]

Re: Eyebrow Viterra.

If Viterra won't sell it to any competition..... Then it would appear to be viable.

Unless there is something structurally wrong with this facility it is a shame its only full of air.
I'm sure there are some countries that would give their eye teeth to have a facility like that.
What is it? About 35 years old? Looks like the same type of build that is east of Regina that they upgraded with steel annexes and a loop track, etc.

[bucket]

Re: Eyebrow Viterra.

If Viterra won't sell it to any competition..... Then it would appear to be viable.

Unless there is something structurally wrong with this facility it is a shame its only full of air.
I'm sure there are some countries that would give their eye teeth to have a facility like that.
What is it? About 35 years old? Looks like the same type of build that is east of Regina that they upgraded with steel annexes and a loop track, etc.

Farmaholic ....why clutter the discussion with facts....lol..

One interesting factoid....Viterra ruined highway 42 trucking grain from eyebrow to Raymore....in a week ...this is from people that seen the bill of ladings...

People like Blaithin that defend this as business practice should never bitch about the state of highways or the cost of repairing them...


There are 5 fertilizer plants within a 20 mile radius here....but someone says there isn't a viable business for an elevator?

Food for thought...

Management at elevators definitely plays a roll in its success....there is a video and song about that filmed with the eyebrow elevator in the background

[Blaithin]

Farmaholic ....why clutter the discussion with facts....lol..

One interesting factoid....Viterra ruined highway 42 trucking grain from eyebrow to Raymore....in a week ...this is from people that seen the bill of ladings...

There are 5 fertilizer plants within a 20 mile radius here....but someone says there isn't a viable business for an elevator?

Food for thought...

Management at elevators definitely plays a roll in its success....there is a video and song about that filmed with the eyebrow elevator in the background

Farmaholic also admits he doesn't know all the details about why they may be doing what they're doing. Something you've yet to even allude to, Bucket, in your all knowing state. Perhaps write them a letter?

Dear Mr Jeworski,

It would please me immensely if I could see your profit and loss analysis for your empty elevator at Eyebrow. I'm quite sure that I, myself, could make it a very profitable terminal for you indeed. All we would have to do is simply move the highway! And maybe the main rail line as well. With these easy alterations it's sure to be able to take in and load out grain on par with even a new build. We can even add some steel bins!

The reason I think these are upgrades that need to be done is simple. That elevator is more convenient for me to haul to, which obviously means it is a profitable terminal for you as well. It makes little sense that you would shut it when it's the easiest place for me to access.

Please do not respond with any of the following:
- County restrictions for building expansions. (These don't exist)
- Correspondence with CP about servicing this location. (It's on the mainline so it's serviceable.)
- Issues and/or repair costs to get the current elevator functional again. (I know you just shut it down because you felt like it, not because there's anything wrong with it.)
- Any failed certifications it may have received in audits. (Who cares about ISO standards anyway.)
- How it would cost millions of dollars and isn't a sound financial decision. (I don't care that you're a business, this has nothing to do with a business decision. It's about having an elevator more convenient for me.)

I assure you that with the recent investment in a local irrigation project, this elevator will more than pay for itself in a short period of time. I'm sure you simply haven't heard of said irrigation project to know about it and speculate about how it's production will absolutely, 200%, keep the elevator at Eyebrow as one of your most proficient and profitable locations. It's understandable, it's news that hasn't been widely talked about and 10,000 tonnes is such a large capacity terminal for you to manage that it's easy to overlook the potential for this site when you're busy trying to organize all your other, smaller, terminals. In fact, since I've heard of absolutely no other companies looking to build in this area, you've obviously got a great head start on them for when they all wake up and realize what a fantastic location this is!

Also, please find attached an invoice of the full amount needed to repair the highway. This dates back to when you decided to truck grain out of the elevator instead of use the railway. I know without a shadow of a doubt in my mind that it was a choice you made and not anything that may have resulted from a railway concern. Therefore the bill is all yours.

Thank you for your time and consideration,
Mr. Bucket

People like Blaithin that defend this as business practice should never bitch about the state of highways or the cost of repairing them...

I don't, the highways here are very well maintained. Despite driving past multiple elevators, Viterra's included. The ones here must be run by a different company, they don't "decide" to use trucks instead of rail or "choose" to destroy the road.

[bucket]

I actually called Viterra higher up about the closure and its impact years ago...

The guy called up my name and said I only did X amount of business with them ....essentailly telling me to phuck off...

Never mind I had X amount in other names.....he didn't care..and was quick to get me off the phone...


That letter is an interesting start but if a guy like Jeworski watches business slide to Richardson , P&H , G3 and Cargill....I doubt a letter will help when a multi billion project was announced with their infrastructure in place...

I don't get paid to do his thinking...and its obvious you know nothing of this area...

As far as your falling back on railways excuse.....in order to service Stongfield/GDT to the north the train has to go past Eyebrow loaded and empty cars....

And yes i do think Viterra deserved the bill for the highway...not gonna happen...but they are the ones that phucked it up...

[jazz]

Re: Eyebrow Viterra.

If Viterra won't sell it to any competition..... Then it would appear to be viable.

Unless there is something structurally wrong with this facility it is a shame its only full of air.
I'm sure there are some countries that would give their eye teeth to have a facility like that.
What is it? About 35 years old? Looks like the same type of build that is east of Regina that they upgraded with steel annexes and a loop track, etc.

Maybe its being reserved for China or Saudi Arabia?

[bucket]

Maybe its being reserved for China or Saudi Arabia?

G3 won't buy existing facilities when I spoke to them on the announcement of the Swift Current build.

[bucket]

Blaithin

As a boomer...your words not mine...hehehe

I am tiring of your side....while I appreciate your comments ....i don't think you are changing your mind on this issue...

I live with the consequences of Viterra decision....to the tune of higher bills due to fuel tires repairs along with storage costs i would rather not have on my farm...

I don't go gaga over a line of steel bins...i do enjoy a cashable cheque without extra expenses.

[Blaithin]

I actually called Viterra higher up about the closure and its impact years ago...

The guy called up my name and said I only did X amount of business with them ....essentailly telling me to phuck off...

Never mind I had X amount in other names.....he didn't care..and was quick to get me off the phone...


That letter is an interesting start but if a guy like Jeworski watches business slide to Richardson , P&H , G3 and Cargill....I doubt a letter will help when a multi billion project was announced with their infrastructure in place...

I don't get paid to do his thinking...and its obvious you know nothing of this area...

As far as your falling back on railways excuse.....in order to service Stongfield/GDT to the north the train has to go past Eyebrow loaded and empty cars....

And yes i do think Viterra deserved the bill for the highway...not gonna happen...but they are the ones that phucked it up...

They have been making questionable decisions for a few years, the closure of a small terminal is hardly the cherry on the cake.

You can't know the ludicrous reasoning behind railway logic until you've dealt with them. I'm not saying that's for sure what happened in this case, but it's highly likely it plays a part. Saying trains go past it doesn't matter. The main drive behind loop tracks in new builds and changing spur lines to loops or kidney beans is the railways saying they want to service loops, not lines. Railways also want large trains, over 100 cars, to make it more worth their while. They don't want to piss around with 30 car spots.

And no, I'm not well versed in that area. You know what area I do know? One that has access to roughly 17 terminals, ranging from about 17,000mt up to 50,000mt. All within an hour and a half of my driveway. Some uphill, some downhill; some on mainlines, some not; some on main highways, some on dinky secondary's; some new builds, some refurbished old AgPros; Some loop tracks, some spurs. If companies are paying to build to duke it out in this area (not much of which is irrigated), then if the potential is as much as you say, they would be, or are, looking in your area.

It's funny how you can look at where companies are building and how they all seem to always pick the same locations with 2 or 3 companies building. Vegreville area got a lot of attention as has Northern Alberta in the last few years. Southern Alberta is starting to get looked at closer too. So if G3 and Viterra and Patterson and GCC are all building new sites in areas closely to each other, how come not one of them has decided your area is perfect? That is the big flag to me that something is going on that makes it not easy for them to build there. Here the big blind spot is Red Deer County. There isn't one big build in that county, just old wooden builds. Even if they want to build there, they end up moving out to an alternate site in a different county.

There's lots of factors at play in terminal locations. You only seem to care about a small handful, superficially.

[bucket]

They have been making questionable decisions for a few years, the closure of a small terminal is hardly the cherry on the cake.

You can't know the ludicrous reasoning behind railway logic until you've dealt with them. I'm not saying that's for sure what happened in this case, but it's highly likely it plays a part. Saying trains go past it doesn't matter. The main drive behind loop tracks in new builds and changing spur lines to loops or kidney beans is the railways saying they want to service loops, not lines. Railways also want large trains, over 100 cars, to make it more worth their while. They don't want to piss around with 30 car spots.

And no, I'm not well versed in that area. You know what area I do know? One that has access to roughly 17 terminals, ranging from about 17,000mt up to 50,000mt. All within an hour and a half of my driveway. Some uphill, some downhill; some on mainlines, some not; some on main highways, some on dinky secondary's; some new builds, some refurbished old AgPros; Some loop tracks, some spurs. If companies are paying to build to duke it out in this area (not much of which is irrigated), then if the potential is as much as you say, they would be, or are, looking in your area.

It's funny how you can look at where companies are building and how they all seem to always pick the same locations with 2 or 3 companies building. Vegreville area got a lot of attention as has Northern Alberta in the last few years. Southern Alberta is starting to get looked at closer too. So if G3 and Viterra and Patterson and GCC are all building new sites in areas closely to each other, how come not one of them has decided your area is perfect? That is the big flag to me that something is going on that makes it not easy for them to build there. Here the big blind spot is Red Deer County. There isn't one big build in that county, just old wooden builds. Even if they want to build there, they end up moving out to an alternate site in a different county.

There's lots of factors at play in terminal locations. You only seem to care about a small handful, superficially.

Shit Blaithin ...you sucked me into a further discussion but i can't not respond....you trickster you...

I will highlight in bold what i find interesting


You can't know the ludicrous reasoning behind railway logic until you've dealt with them. I'm not saying that's for sure what happened in this case, but it's highly likely it plays a part. Saying trains go past it doesn't matter. The main drive behind loop tracks in new builds and changing spur lines to loops or kidney beans is the railways saying they want to service loops, not lines. Railways also want large trains, over 100 cars, to make it more worth their while. They don't want to piss around with 30 car spots.

Ok so the railways will allow G3, as an example , to operate CP's train on the loop for loading....

But an elevator with no other business on a branch line can't load straight through the same as a loop? You understand the logic I am suggesting...With the diminished business and the appropriate distance to load on these branch lines why do need to limit the carload to the spot anymore...

If Eyebrow could load 112 cars straight through ..surely the rules could be changed to treat it like a loop...the only other customer is the Viterra at Strongfield/GDT and one other...but surely to christ CP knows what they are sending for trains on that branch line...
Hope that is clear enough explanation...

Maybe that is some of the thought process I forgot to mention in my earlier musings about this point...

You have engaged in a good discussion...maybe some lurker at Viterra/CP will read our discussion.

[bucket]

In years that there is good production it sure seems odd that idling facilities makes more sense than utilizing them.

[Guest]

One other side effect of COVID is that old useless things are becoming valuable again
I mean , when a 2x4 costs $12 ?
Maybe some will rub off on govt and big business ?
I bet food wastage is way down also ?