Mask-Social Distancing

[Guest]

i don't think you will have any problems
the good doctor tams just said to limit alcohol
sounds like you are doing your part

[dmlfarmer]

Yea you might get a free test in mail, but results will be none of your business

Really case, you just can't quit spreading BS can you!

From brochure about the Brochure - Canadian COVID-19 Antibody and Health Survey (CCAHS)
https://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/survey/household/5339/brochure https://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/survey/household/5339/brochure

"What are the benefits of participating in this survey?
Your participation will help in further understanding the impact of COVID-19. The results will help indicate how many people have been infected with COVID-19 (SARS-CoV-2), including those who may not have had related symptoms. Also, you will receive your test results once they are available."

[Guest]

we shall see about that

[dmlfarmer]

DML - you completely missed my point and tried to twist it.

Covid-19 is real - if people want to safeguard themselves they can... lock and isolate themselves from society with enough supplies for the next year, to be safe have enough supplies to last your lifetime in case we never get through this virus. Maybe have a radio with you so you can make a judgment as to whether or not it is safe to emerge, but how can you really be sure it is safe?

Life is risky, some take more risks than others, I make risk assessments every day in my daily life - risk vs reward.

I have not been to Costco since last February but pickup parts at a local ag dealer... each place could put me at risk... but one place I see as a necessary risk and my reward is I have a social interaction and now have the parts I need to prepare for spring. I can tell my wife I visited with so and so and we have something to talk about.

If my 90 year old neighbours needed something from Costco I would head in and get it for them... once again perhaps a risk but I would take that risk so they don’t have too...

There is a risk to everything, I could be skiing and stopped on the hill and another skier could run into me and injure me... I guess to avoid that risk I should have my own ski hill... oh wait should I hire ski patrol because I could fall and have no one realized I am hurt and die from exposure?

Once again I am safer eating steak, drinking rum and watching Netflix... no risk there...

No, I get your point, but the risk of all the things you mention are only to yourself. None are contagious like Covid is. You have much more control over all of these risks to yourself. But at the same time anyone with Covid who does not think it is a risk to themselves and chooses to go out in public while sick is exposing everyone use to a greater risk of contacting it. Making the risk worse is the fact transmission can happen from asymtomatic carriers. No one likes to be locked down, including vulnerable senior citizens yet there are people who won't even follow the most basic risk reduction strategy like wearing a mask so cases increase, and lockdowns are put in place to prevent overloading the health care system which may be needed for treatments other than Covid - like the heart attack victim.

[dmlfarmer]

I find it fascinating that the primary reason for opposing lockdowns on this site seem to be economic. There have been repeated calls for protection of the vulnerable and letting the rest of society be free of any Covid reduction strategies. I am intrigued by the thought process that some feel you should not be restricted at all yet suggest a viable alternative to protect vulnerable (ie elderly in nursing homes, hospitals???) would be to have all staff working at retirements homes completely locked in the facilities 24 hours a day for , during a 2 week, 12 hour everyday work shift. And people think health care workers would be happy to do this for the right amount of money.

A number of posters say they have spouses, children, spouses of children, or other family members working in health care. So I am wondering what wage you think would justify that health care worker in your family to accept complete isolation and be restricted to the workplace for a 2 week, 12 hour a day shift? Consider not only the person being gone from the household, but that if they have children they would need 2 week child care arrangements. Consider that some of these people also play a significant role in your farm operations, from physical work to managing the books and would be unavailable for 2 weeks at a time. And consider their social cost of being away from children, family, and everyone except other workers and those in their care for 2 weeks at a time.

Seriously, what wage would need to be paid to get someone in your family to do this or would anyone even be willing to do this or have an immediate family member do this - if labor laws could even be changed to allow such a shift?

[farming101]

101, that does not mesh with the recent covid stats. The govts own data shows this is overwhelmingly in care homes.

I saw that too and wondered. I only went off the news item talking about the situation in SK. and some of the stats on the Saskatchewan covid website.
The outbreaks in the spring in Quebec and to some extent Ontario and BC were really concentrated in care homes so maybe that has something to do with the statistic you posted. I don't doubt that for all of Canada it is accurate.
A care home in Wakaw has most of the residents and some staff positive right now

[jazz]

So I am wondering what wage you think would justify that health care worker in your family to accept complete isolation and be restricted to the workplace for a 2 week, 12 hour a day shift? Consider not only the person being gone from the household, but that if they have children they would need 2 week child care arrangements.

Oil workers do that all the time. Month in month out. Month in camp, then home. Pay them enough the spouse stays at home in Calgary. I doubt the health system is more risky than working the platforms. Some do it 6 months at a time over seas. MY BIL works in a camp in saudi, gets home 4 weeks a year. Not the end of the world. Quite a few of us spend 12 hrs a day in the combine for 2 months with no break.

And perhaps a science update for you. Asymptotic spread was already exposed as a bust. None of the cases came from that. If you had covid and no symptoms, your immune system had it in check and it was not transmissible.

[dmlfarmer]

Oil workers do that all the time. Month in month out. Month in camp, then home. Pay them enough the spouse stays at home in Calgary. I doubt the health system is more risky than working the platforms. Some do it 6 months at a time over seas. MY BIL works in a camp in saudi. Not the end of the world. Quite a few of us spend 12 hrs a day in the combine for 2 months with no break.

And perhaps a science update for you. Asymptotic spread was already exposed as a bust. None of the cases came from that. If you had covid and no symptoms, your immune system had it in check and it was not transmissible.

So Jazz what hourly wage would be enough for your wife (if a health care worker) would be enough for her to leave your kids, home, and the farm for 2 weeks at a time and live in her place of employment caring for people for 12 hours a day for 2 weeks straight?

[jazz]

So Jazz what hourly wage would be enough for your wife (if a health care worker) would be enough for her to leave your kids, home, and the farm for 2 weeks at a time and live in her place of employment caring for people for 12 hours a day for 2 weeks straight?

Well the average household income is $75k in the country, so just double that for a number. Lots of money around for a temp bump up as danger pay or whatever you want to call it. That would be on par with what lots of remote shift workers get. I think the country would easily support that over the other measures we had.

[dmlfarmer]

And perhaps a science update for you. Asymptotic spread was already exposed as a bust. None of the cases came from that. If you had covid and no symptoms, your immune system had it in check and it was not transmissible.

Source of this "science" update please.

And what about these. Are they refuted or considered in your science update:
-Government of Canada: You can infect others even if you aren’t showing symptoms
The virus can be spread to others from someone who’s infected but not showing symptoms. This includes people who:haven’t yet developed symptoms (pre-symptomatic), never develop symptoms (asymptomatic) November 11, 2020 https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/symptoms.html https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/symptoms.html

-But a meta-analysis published last month (Nov), which included 13 studies involving 21,708 people, calculated the rate of asymptomatic presentation to be 17%. Byambasuren, O. et al. J. Assoc. Med. Microbiol. Infect. Dis. Can. https://doi.org/10.3138/jammi-2020-0030 (2020).

-Can people without symptoms spread the virus to others?
"Without symptoms" can refer to two groups of people: those who eventually do have symptoms (pre-symptomatic) and those who never go on to have symptoms (asymptomatic). During this pandemic, we have seen that people without symptoms can spread the coronavirus infection to others.
A person with COVID-19 may be contagious 48 hours before starting to experience symptoms. In fact, people without symptoms may be more likely to spread the illness, because they are unlikely to be isolating and may not adopt behaviors designed to prevent spread.
But what about people who never go on to develop symptoms? A study published in JAMA Network Open found that almost one out of every four infections may be transmitted by individuals with asymptomatic infections. Harvard health https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-basics

-In this decision analytical model assessing multiple scenarios for the infectious period and the proportion of transmission from individuals who never have COVID-19 symptoms, transmission from asymptomatic individuals was estimated to account for more than half of all transmission. January 7, 2021
SARS-CoV-2 Transmission From People Without COVID-19 Symptoms

-Researchers found an estimated 20 percent of people with an infection with the new coronavirus remain symptom-free. Even people who are truly asymptomatic are able to spread the virus. September 2020
Michael A. Johansson, PhD1,2; Talia M. Quandelacy, PhD, MPH1; Sarah Kada, PhD1; et al

-New research has found that over half of COVID-19 cases are likely caused by people without symptoms.

Approximately 59 percent of all transmission is caused by presymptomatic individuals who hadn’t yet developed symptoms and asymptomatic people who never developed symptoms, according to the studyTrusted Source published last week in JAMA Network. Jan 11, 2021 https://www.healthline.com/health-news/most-covid-19-cases-come-from-people-without-symptoms

-Among the research related to asymptomatic spread of the coronavirus so far:
Up to 50% of people who had COVID-19 in Iceland were asymptomatic after health officials did broad lab testing of the population there.
Nearly 40% of children ages 6 to 13 tested positive for COVID-19, but were asymptomatic, according to just published research from the Duke University BRAVE Kids study. While the children had no symptoms of COVID-19, they had the same viral load of SARS-CoV-2 in their nasal areas, meaning that asymptomatic children had the same capacity to spread the virus compared to others who had symptoms of COVID-19.
And, a study from Singapore early in the COVID-19 pandemic showed that people who were asymptomatic still were spreading SARS-CoV-2 to others. https://www.uchealth.org/today/the-truth-about-asymptomatic-spread-of-covid-19/

-People with no symptoms transmit more than half of all cases of the novel coronavirus, according to a model developed by researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Fifty-nine percent of all transmission came from people without symptoms, under the model’s baseline scenario. That includes 35 percent of new cases from people who infect others before they show symptoms and 24 percent that come from people who never develop symptoms at all. https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2021/01/07/covid-asymptomatic-spread/