Mask-Social Distancing

[farming101]

101, that does not mesh with the recent covid stats. The govts own data shows this is overwhelmingly in care homes.

I saw that too and wondered. I only went off the news item talking about the situation in SK. and some of the stats on the Saskatchewan covid website.
The outbreaks in the spring in Quebec and to some extent Ontario and BC were really concentrated in care homes so maybe that has something to do with the statistic you posted. I don't doubt that for all of Canada it is accurate.
A care home in Wakaw has most of the residents and some staff positive right now

[jazz]

So I am wondering what wage you think would justify that health care worker in your family to accept complete isolation and be restricted to the workplace for a 2 week, 12 hour a day shift? Consider not only the person being gone from the household, but that if they have children they would need 2 week child care arrangements.

Oil workers do that all the time. Month in month out. Month in camp, then home. Pay them enough the spouse stays at home in Calgary. I doubt the health system is more risky than working the platforms. Some do it 6 months at a time over seas. MY BIL works in a camp in saudi, gets home 4 weeks a year. Not the end of the world. Quite a few of us spend 12 hrs a day in the combine for 2 months with no break.

And perhaps a science update for you. Asymptotic spread was already exposed as a bust. None of the cases came from that. If you had covid and no symptoms, your immune system had it in check and it was not transmissible.

[dmlfarmer]

Oil workers do that all the time. Month in month out. Month in camp, then home. Pay them enough the spouse stays at home in Calgary. I doubt the health system is more risky than working the platforms. Some do it 6 months at a time over seas. MY BIL works in a camp in saudi. Not the end of the world. Quite a few of us spend 12 hrs a day in the combine for 2 months with no break.

And perhaps a science update for you. Asymptotic spread was already exposed as a bust. None of the cases came from that. If you had covid and no symptoms, your immune system had it in check and it was not transmissible.

So Jazz what hourly wage would be enough for your wife (if a health care worker) would be enough for her to leave your kids, home, and the farm for 2 weeks at a time and live in her place of employment caring for people for 12 hours a day for 2 weeks straight?

[jazz]

So Jazz what hourly wage would be enough for your wife (if a health care worker) would be enough for her to leave your kids, home, and the farm for 2 weeks at a time and live in her place of employment caring for people for 12 hours a day for 2 weeks straight?

Well the average household income is $75k in the country, so just double that for a number. Lots of money around for a temp bump up as danger pay or whatever you want to call it. That would be on par with what lots of remote shift workers get. I think the country would easily support that over the other measures we had.

[dmlfarmer]

And perhaps a science update for you. Asymptotic spread was already exposed as a bust. None of the cases came from that. If you had covid and no symptoms, your immune system had it in check and it was not transmissible.

Source of this "science" update please.

And what about these. Are they refuted or considered in your science update:
-Government of Canada: You can infect others even if you aren’t showing symptoms
The virus can be spread to others from someone who’s infected but not showing symptoms. This includes people who:haven’t yet developed symptoms (pre-symptomatic), never develop symptoms (asymptomatic) November 11, 2020 https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/symptoms.html https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/symptoms.html

-But a meta-analysis published last month (Nov), which included 13 studies involving 21,708 people, calculated the rate of asymptomatic presentation to be 17%. Byambasuren, O. et al. J. Assoc. Med. Microbiol. Infect. Dis. Can. https://doi.org/10.3138/jammi-2020-0030 (2020).

-Can people without symptoms spread the virus to others?
"Without symptoms" can refer to two groups of people: those who eventually do have symptoms (pre-symptomatic) and those who never go on to have symptoms (asymptomatic). During this pandemic, we have seen that people without symptoms can spread the coronavirus infection to others.
A person with COVID-19 may be contagious 48 hours before starting to experience symptoms. In fact, people without symptoms may be more likely to spread the illness, because they are unlikely to be isolating and may not adopt behaviors designed to prevent spread.
But what about people who never go on to develop symptoms? A study published in JAMA Network Open found that almost one out of every four infections may be transmitted by individuals with asymptomatic infections. Harvard health https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-basics

-In this decision analytical model assessing multiple scenarios for the infectious period and the proportion of transmission from individuals who never have COVID-19 symptoms, transmission from asymptomatic individuals was estimated to account for more than half of all transmission. January 7, 2021
SARS-CoV-2 Transmission From People Without COVID-19 Symptoms

-Researchers found an estimated 20 percent of people with an infection with the new coronavirus remain symptom-free. Even people who are truly asymptomatic are able to spread the virus. September 2020
Michael A. Johansson, PhD1,2; Talia M. Quandelacy, PhD, MPH1; Sarah Kada, PhD1; et al

-New research has found that over half of COVID-19 cases are likely caused by people without symptoms.

Approximately 59 percent of all transmission is caused by presymptomatic individuals who hadn’t yet developed symptoms and asymptomatic people who never developed symptoms, according to the studyTrusted Source published last week in JAMA Network. Jan 11, 2021 https://www.healthline.com/health-news/most-covid-19-cases-come-from-people-without-symptoms

-Among the research related to asymptomatic spread of the coronavirus so far:
Up to 50% of people who had COVID-19 in Iceland were asymptomatic after health officials did broad lab testing of the population there.
Nearly 40% of children ages 6 to 13 tested positive for COVID-19, but were asymptomatic, according to just published research from the Duke University BRAVE Kids study. While the children had no symptoms of COVID-19, they had the same viral load of SARS-CoV-2 in their nasal areas, meaning that asymptomatic children had the same capacity to spread the virus compared to others who had symptoms of COVID-19.
And, a study from Singapore early in the COVID-19 pandemic showed that people who were asymptomatic still were spreading SARS-CoV-2 to others. https://www.uchealth.org/today/the-truth-about-asymptomatic-spread-of-covid-19/

-People with no symptoms transmit more than half of all cases of the novel coronavirus, according to a model developed by researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Fifty-nine percent of all transmission came from people without symptoms, under the model’s baseline scenario. That includes 35 percent of new cases from people who infect others before they show symptoms and 24 percent that come from people who never develop symptoms at all. https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2021/01/07/covid-asymptomatic-spread/

[fjlip]

Of course you omitted those magical words" according to a model developed by researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention." and "Their findings reinforce the importance of following the agency’s guidelines:"

They would be a tad biased to promote all their social disruption/lockdown/masks.

CDC is a corporation that owns patents on drugs...


How about Wuhan study of 10,000,000...

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w

"The citywide nucleic acid screening of SARS-CoV-2 infection in Wuhan recruited nearly 10 million people, and found no newly confirmed cases with COVID-19. The detection rate of asymptomatic positive cases was very low, and there was no evidence of transmission from asymptomatic positive persons to traced close contacts. There were no asymptomatic positive cases in 96.4% of the residential communities.

Previous studies have shown that asymptomatic individuals infected with SARS-CoV-2 virus were infectious3, and might subsequently become symptomatic4. Compared with symptomatic patients, asymptomatic infected persons generally have low quantity of viral loads and a short duration of viral shedding, which decrease the transmission risk of SARS-CoV-25. In the present study, virus culture was carried out on samples from asymptomatic positive cases, and found no viable SARS-CoV-2 virus. All close contacts of the asymptomatic positive cases tested negative, indicating that the asymptomatic positive cases detected in this study were unlikely to be infectious."

[fjlip]

How about WHO? Very rarely...

https://youtu.be/NQTBlbx1Xjs

https://thenewamerican.com/study-of-almost-10-million-finds-no-asymptomatic-covid-spread-media-silent/

"We keep hearing about how we should follow the science. The claim is tired by now. We know what’s really happening. The lockdown lobby ignores whatever contradicts their narrative, preferring unverified anecdotes ( or MODELLING ) over an actual scientific study of 10 million residents in what was the world’s first major hotspot for the disease we are trying to manage. You would expect this study to be massive international news. So far as I can tell, it is being ignored.

“Now, why would anyone listen to anything coming out of Wuhan, given the Chinese record on the matter?” asked commentator Monica Showalter Monday. “Quite simply, because the city was where the problem started, and the city has since gotten back to normal.”

“Over in America, things are another story,” she continues. “The lockdowns extend and extend, with some so-called experts saying there won’t be relief until 2022. The vaccine won’t do it; the masks and stay-at-home-orders, the business shutdowns and the school closures have got to remain in place forever.”

[foragefarmer]

So the religious anti-masking nutbars Hugs over Masks, were in Steinbach protesting in front of Steinbach mayor's office because of the Covid restrictions.

Mayor Funk was very disappointed with the protesters, and pleaded with them to go home. Most of the appox 100 selfish protesters were not wearing masks, and of coarse not social distancing as per the groups name Hugs over Masks.

Some of the protesters had signs reading Faith is Essential. Ya, let's see how that works when you get Covid and need medical attention.

So Wade to answer your threads question, neither social distancing nor masks are required for the Hugs over Masks Convenient Christians.

[jazz]

Some of the protesters had signs reading Faith is Essential. Ya, let's see how that works when you get Covid and need medical attention.

.

Freedom of assembly, religion and movement are enshrined in the charter which also covered BLM last summer.

Everyone has a right to medical attention no matter their views or behaviors just like the opoid abusers and methheads do including our already convicted prisoner population.

[foragefarmer]

Freedom of assembly, religion and movement are enshrined in the charter which also covered BLM last summer.

Everyone has a right to medical attention no matter their views or behaviors just like the opoid abusers and methheads do including our already convicted prisoner population.

Jazz this is what I posted,

"Some of the protesters had signs reading Faith is Essential. Ya, let's see how that works when you get Covid and need medical attention."

Does my post say anything about denying the religious nutbars from Hugs over Masks not receiving medical attention?

You and Like Button Buddies Sheepy and Parts need to reread.

Great use of examples though, Jazz.

[dmlfarmer]

How about Wuhan study of 10,000,000...

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w



[/U]

Now for the rest of the story of the Wuhan study which you omitted.
1. The study was the number of asymptomatic cases in Wuhan, not of transmission from asymptomatic carriers.
2. The study took place between May 14 and June 1st, after a 70 day complete lockdown of Wuhan and when Covid was under control in Wuhan so there was little transmission happening of Covid
3. masks, hand washing, and social distancing was still strictly enforced for all Wuhan citizens, again reducing transmission
4. One of the participants in the study was the University of East Anglia of the UK and their report states:
-But the research team warn that their findings do not show that the virus can’t be passed on by asymptomatic carriers.
-Prof Song said: “What this tells us is that the infection prevalence of Covid-19 was very low five to eight weeks after the end of lockdown in Wuhan.
“This work confirms that transmission of Covid-19 can be successfully controlled by well implemented non-pharmaceutical interventions, including face covering, hand hygiene, safe social distancing, contract tracing, and lockdown restrictions. Actually, mask wearing remains common in public places now in Wuhan.”
However, the research team say that it is important to emphasise that the results of this study should be correctly interpreted.
-“But there is plenty of evidence elsewhere showing that people infected with Covid-19 may be temporarily asymptomatic and infectious before going on to develop symptoms.


I will put this is a farming context. Clubroot has been found in a neighboring RM. So you decide to plant a clubroot resistant variety. Come fall you check your fields for clubroot and find none so you claim there is no clubroot in your RM and you wonder why did you waste money for a clubroot variety. However, your scouting your clubroot resistant fields does not prove that there has been no transmission of clubroot spores to your RM. You did not check for spores, you only looked for actual disease which likely had been controlled if it was present by variety selecton.

Looking for one thing does not prove something else not studied is not happening. Both the Wuhan study and the east Anglia report make it clear asymptomatic transmission is possible

So do you believe the actual study and the report by East Anglia Medical School which was part of the study or the Conservative media spin which Fjlip presented?

[fjlip]

"All close contacts of the asymptomatic positive cases tested negative, indicating that the asymptomatic positive cases detected in this study were unlikely to be infectious."

Read it again. How about the WHO video?

[jazz]

Looking for one thing does not prove something else not studied is not happening. Both the Wuhan study and the east Anglia report make it clear asymptomatic transmission is possible

Possible but not likely. Probably rare. Trusting the settled science from the experts.

Asymptotic does not mean you have no symptoms at one point but you eventually get them. That is transmissible.

But there are a whole raft of cases of people who test positive who never develop any symptoms ever. That is not transmissible or its faulty PCR amplification or they have antibodies from having it sometime earlier.

You can see the community transmission numbers in the chart I posted are very low.

[dmlfarmer]

"All close contacts of the asymptomatic positive cases tested negative, indicating that the asymptomatic positive cases detected in this study were unlikely to be infectious."

Read it again. How about the WHO video?

You read the entire study! The key words in your quote are ...asymptomatic positive cases detected in this study are unlikely... The study documents low virus loads in th3 300 out of 10 million tested. The study was not of tranmission but of actual existing cases. And why do you think your quote has any more weight than these which the study authors present: -But the research team warn that their findings do not show that the virus can’t be passed on by asymptomatic carriers.

However, the research team say that it is important to emphasise that the results of this study should be correctly interpreted.
-“But there is plenty of evidence elsewhere showing that people infected with Covid-19 may be temporarily asymptomatic and infectious before going on to develop symptoms.


And why do you think this study in Wuhan done early in the pandemic carries any more weight than all the studies I have presented from around the world and which have been done much more recently when a lot more is known of the disease and which show asymtomatic transmission is happening? Read the studies I presented!

[dmlfarmer]

Possible but not likely. Probably rare. Trusting the settled science from the experts.

]

So now you say asymptomatic transmission is possible but not likely. Yet yesterday you made the statement that the science was settled and there have been no cases of asymptomatic transmission.

Jazz: And perhaps a science update for you. Asymptotic spread was already exposed as a bust. None of the cases came from that. If you had covid and no symptoms, your immune system had it in check and it was not transmissible.

Well here is a science update for you. I note the video was made on aired on June 8, 2020. Early in the pandemic and science has learned a lot since then, including all the studies I presented which you ignore that show asymptomatic transmission is happening.