Canadian grain act ...review

[farming101]

If grain is delivered to a primary elevator, a grade and dockage are agreed upon and payment to the farmer is made, that should be the end of it. The rest is on the grain company as to what happens down the line.
Ya, I know, that's not what the little words in the contract say but really, what happens after the deal is closed is completely out of the farmer's hands. He is at the mercy of something unforeseen and uncontrolled occurring at any of a number of points before it hits the ship. He can sample his bins at home as many times as he wants. Doesn't make one bit of difference. It can still all go south.

The above described transaction is all based off of 4 pokes in a super B at the majority of elevators.

Companies are going to have to step up their game on securing representative samples if they want to go after a farmer for something changing after the grain is in their possession.

[blackpowder]

Companies are going to have to step up their game on securing representative samples if they want to go after a farmer for something changing after the grain is in their possession.

Especially since they own it once it hits the pit.
I think some forget that little point.

[farming101]

As far as all the grades that are used to buy grain off the farm; very few are used for export.
This year there is 1 CWRS, 2 CWRS and "by specification". Also a little Red winter and the Eastern Canada wheats.
Over 10% has been shipped this year by specification. That does not necessarily mean a lower price but what it does mean is that all the CW feed, CPS, SWS, CNHR and #3 CWRS is leaving the country graded "by specification" or is being blended into the #1 and #2 CWRS.

Tolerance on an export 2 CWRS is 3% total with 1.5% being a contrasting class. As well, there can be .8% other cereals.
Tell me how many farmers get their grain mixed up to that extent on farm

[Rareearth]

Maybe stiffer penalties for those companies that contracted grain, and don't offer delivery opportunities as per contract. Maybe credit card interest rates per month fees to be added to the contracted price.

Most farmer deliver for a certain grade, price, and delivery time frame. The exporters compromise liquidity and farmer abilities to pay debt obligations. The 14 day requirement to pay farmer is one thing, BUT the delivery for grain is another. The maximum contract delivery period should be one month! Accountability and responsibility to the ag industry as a whole is currently compromised ( and has been for a long time).

This will be even more critical and important if inflation and or higher interest rates return.

Farmers should not bankroll the exporters .

[Blaithin]

Tolerance on an export 2 CWRS is 3% total with 1.5% being a contrasting class. As well, there can be .8% other cereals.
Tell me how many farmers get their grain mixed up to that extent on farm

You’d be surprised.

Volunteers are the bigger issue though, and then the odd mix up.

[malleefarmer]

Delivered to elevator, sampled graded sold.

If traders blend at the port probably graded there to make sure it meets spec.

I get confused you guys talk grading cleaning and dockage.

So some times your grain gets cleaned atvelevators? Why not do it on farm?

We harvest here have wind/air on combine flat out blow all the light stuff out the back.

Rarely does downngrading happen here for wheat because of test weight. Barley occasionally just drops a grade usually $5 a tonne.

Weird we have no isuues with traders blending up its what they do been going on since moses was a boy.

[Blaithin]

I get confused you guys talk grading cleaning and dockage.

So some times your grain gets cleaned atvelevators? Why not do it on farm?

It would be an interesting comparison to see what money is left on the table by hauling dockage to the elevator vs investing in cleaners on farm.

In many elevators, majority of wheat and canola is cleaned. New higher throughput terminals don’t have cleaners however most of the grain handled there will be cleaned at port.

[CptnObvious]

As far as all the grades that are used to buy grain off the farm; very few are used for export.
This year there is 1 CWRS, 2 CWRS and "by specification". Also a little Red winter and the Eastern Canada wheats.
Over 10% has been shipped this year by specification. That does not necessarily mean a lower price but what it does mean is that all the CW feed, CPS, SWS, CNHR and #3 CWRS is leaving the country graded "by specification" or is being blended into the #1 and #2 CWRS.

Tolerance on an export 2 CWRS is 3% total with 1.5% being a contrasting class. As well, there can be .8% other cereals.
Tell me how many farmers get their grain mixed up to that extent on farm

No grain is exported by spec alone. ALL grain is sold by grade and most of that has additional specs attached. Recent conversations with traders indicate Canadian grade parameters are still important to buyers.

[CptnObvious]

The grain act does not regulate how grain is handled it gives the CGC the power to regulate how it is handled through the regulations and Guide. I understand why CGC inward inspection was no longer needed. My question is why if elevator employee grades it when car is loaded why does it need to be graded again when it is being unloaded? How could have it change in transit? Not like when it is being cleaned/ transferred/ or blended at elevator and re grading was needed. It all costs $. When CGC was going to elevators to cert cars as they were being loaded there was no need for them to be reinspected at unload and yes they could be direct hit to boats if we were loading to shipping specs in that case the CGC inspected again to make sure that the over all boat hit shipping specs as it was being mixed in the boat.

What parts of the actual ACT do people want to see changed?

Degree of soundness, Damaged and foreign material are going to be factors that effect price doesn't matter if it is assessed as grades or as individual factors and it doesn't matter if it is assessed visually by trained people or mechanical. It doesn't matter if the graders pay check comes from the grain companies, CGC or third party it is the training and quality of work that is important. I'm sure There is lots of elevator employees that are as good or better graders than anyone else. It comes down to training and monitoring to make sure they are staying on task.

Inward inspection is still kind of needed. The CGC used to grade going in to the terminal( and the terminal used that info for binning decisions) and coming out, and if there was a discrepancy the onus was on the CGC to explain why. Now there is a significant risk( to the terminal by contract and to the farmer by reputation) for off-type loading because what the CGC says is coming out is not what Bubba said was going in.

[farming101]

No grain is exported by spec alone. ALL grain is sold by grade and most of that has additional specs attached. Recent conversations with traders indicate Canadian grade parameters are still important to buyers.

K thanks. I guess that's why on the monthly report they differentiate between wheat sold by grade and wheat sold buy specification
If most of the grain sold has additional specs attached why is that not shown in the report? Only a portion is designated as by specification. Thanks for your reply.

[farming101]

It would be an interesting comparison to see what money is left on the table by hauling dockage to the elevator vs investing in cleaners on farm.

In many elevators, majority of wheat and canola is cleaned. New higher throughput terminals don’t have cleaners however most of the grain handled there will be cleaned at port.

Cleaning the whole crop on the farm would never pay unless a guy had some way to turn the screenings into gold. Terminal cleaning charges would be paid over again unless shipped to port by producer car.
It's in the basis....

[Blaithin]

Cleaning the whole crop on the farm would never pay unless a guy had some way to turn the screenings into gold. Terminal cleaning charges would be paid over again unless shipped to port by producer car.
It's in the basis....

The amount of dickering people do, even on here, over dockage, makes it sound like some should (maybe do) find ways to limit dockage.

Cleaning charges were not what I was referring to, especially as some terminals don’t even have cleaners. But the loss of dockage being taken off the gross weight of the load.... why lose 2% to dockage and then want to critique the elevator for how they conduct dockage if you can have more control over what dockage is sent.

You know what terminals do with screenings? Sell it to the feed mills. No reason a farmer can’t find that market as well.

And that is what comparison I was referring too.

Money lost through dockage taken off gross weights vs investment in cleaning equipment, running it, and selling the screenings.

As with anything some farmers would make it work, and some couldn’t. Distance, feed markets, equipment and labour and time....

Just as some are willing to set the combines and blow a bit of grain out the back to get really clean grain and some want to save every kernel and keep more dockage in.

It would also not be necessary to clean the whole crop. Just as terminals blend for grade and specs, they also blend for commercially clean. Get enough really clean that they can blend some slightly dirty in with and save on cleaning time.

[CptnObvious]

K thanks. I guess that's why on the monthly report they differentiate between wheat sold by grade and wheat sold buy specification
If most of the grain sold has additional specs attached why is that not shown in the report? Only a portion is designated as by specification. Thanks for your reply.
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I'd only be guessing at an answer, I don't know the rules of whomever made this chart. where is it from?

[Blaithin]

K thanks. I guess that's why on the monthly report they differentiate between wheat sold by grade and wheat sold buy specification
If most of the grain sold has additional specs attached why is that not shown in the report? Only a portion is designated as by specification. Thanks for your reply.
[ATTACH]7459[/ATTACH]

Sales seem to always have specification. 2 CWRS 13.8 protein, under 14.5 moisture, ergot under .010, FN of 300, etc. Some have more, some have less. I don’t know that those would count as by specification or not. Or which ones might. FN maybe as that’s not a grading factor.

Never seen anyone with a sale as “By specification” so they’d have to specify what that’s including a bit more.

[farming101]

I'd only be guessing at an answer, I don't know the rules of whomever made this chart. where is it from?

Umm Cap'n that's a chart in the CGC monthly Exports of Canadian Grain and Wheat Flour report.

You can download a copy here
https://www.grainscanada.gc.ca/en/grain-research/statistics/exports-grain-wheat-flour/ https://www.grainscanada.gc.ca/en/grain-research/statistics/exports-grain-wheat-flour/