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BTO bankruptcy. Effect on remaining farmers.

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    BTO bankruptcy. Effect on remaining farmers.

    The inflation thread detoured into the demise of a rising star. I don't know them or the whole story, so don't want to pass too much judgement. Could have had the best business plan and were the hardest workers, stymied by mother nature throwing too many consecutive disasters at them, as ajl suggested.


    But, if this type of massive expansion proves to be financially unsustainable as it apparently was in this case, doesn't that indicate that every other producer who is forced to compete with them (while they lasted) with higher rents, higher land prices, etc., is at a big disadvantage by paying the artificially higher prices while the responsible farmers are also actually paying their bills and growing in a more sustainable pace? Doubtful that those costs will go down when the big player goes down. Hard to compete with someone who doesn't pay their bill at the end of the day, intentionally or otherwise.

    If it was all built by unsustainable debt, how does anyone else play the game without doing the same, and why would the result be any different in the long run if they hve to do it the same way? Supporting and encouraging what (may?) be over leverage by a few big operators just makes us all less competitive in the world market place by raising our land costs for no increase in yield or productivity.

    Mostly I'm trying to understand why the banks and ag lenders would want or allow themselves to get this deep into one operation? And keep getting deeper even after trouble may have started. From a risk perspective, wouldn't the lender be far less exposed by loaning this same amount to 10 smaller operations to have more sustainable expansions? Do they really have a master plan to support consolidation, or are the ambitious over achievers just the only ones applying, so they get the funds? While the cautious just get left behind without even asking if they would be approved?

    Meanwhile we all get to pay for the defaults. The unpaid bills don't disappear, the input suppliers, banks creditors etc. will have to pass those costs on to everyone else, and price even more risk into their prices to protect against more of these events.

    I'm just trying to figure out if this type of operation really has any net benefit to the industry in general? Or is this the outlier, and everyone else who tries it is massively successful and far more efficient than the rest of us, and that is why the lenders are lining up to support them? Then they force us to be more efficient or get out of the way?

    #2
    Every area has their BTO’s. Lots have come and gone. Sure is a tough way to farm when land is spread out a hundred miles, makes management a challenge b/c it is hard to see what’s going on 50 miles away.

    Comment


      #3
      Govt told us all to get big or get out. Some have done both it seems.

      The endless term loans and $230k mastercard tell a different story than just a few rough yrs which we have all had but its likely the harvest from hell finished them off.

      Expanding too fast (tripling acres in less than a decade) trying to play outside of your league and rolling slim margins or even losses into growing acres. Banks cant get a handle on true financial picture unless you are static for 3 yrs so I guess they keep lending.

      My bank is always asking if I want to finance more land. I say nope, we are diversifying income, not expanding.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by jazz View Post

        Expanding too fast (tripling acres in less than a decade) trying to play outside of your league and rolling slim margins or even losses into growing acres. Banks cant get a handle on true financial picture unless you are static for 3 yrs so I guess they keep lending.
        I've often wondered about that. How easy is it to cover up losses in the middle of a massive expansion? Do some just need to keep on expanding to keep the current losses from being obvious?

        Comment


          #5
          The bank is always the biggest loser in these bankruptcies because they typically have the most at stake. Mind you they are always secured creditors so the unsecured creditors would argue otherwise since the bank gets paid first and usually nothing left for the unsecured guys.
          I don’t know what to say, I am not sure you are really competing against someone operating on borrowed time.
          It would be a tough position to constantly have to borrow to buy seed and inputs every year, I don’t think that is sustainable year after year forever.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
            Do some just need to keep on expanding to keep the current losses from being obvious?
            I think everyone gets lost in expansion mode. If they win with 3, but lose with the 4th, perhaps that's the odds they are anticipating?

            Yes we all pay... but as a wise man once told me, you dont have to be solvent, you just have to be more solvent than 2 of your neighbors!

            They'll send the first 2 to bankruptcy court, but by the time they find you, they'll be far more agreeable to seeking new terms.

            Disclosure... I've never been that 3rd guy in line... or for that matter 1 or 2.

            Comment


              #7
              I dont get it at all. If I extrapolate my net profit per acre to a BTO those guys should have millions of dollars in profit each year. I believe I operate more cost effective than a BTO on a per unit basis, but they cant be that far off. And if they aren't making big dollars, then just plain and simple.... why do it? Is human nature just that I influenced by ego?

              The banks, advisers and farmers are always saying that to be successful you need to keep growing by a percentage each year. I just don't get that either, at some point you just get stretched too thin and the cracks in the mortar start happening.

              FWIW the average Agriville farmer would be a BTO in my area.

              Comment


                #8
                Fall out ... higher land rents and costs for those left who are responsible, end of story.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Can,t be to bad yet, lots of local young pups waving at me going down the hyway with my feed wagon. If I even mention retirement I would have to put traffic control lights on my laneway. Looks like we are back to winter in 72 hours.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I'm not smart but I know some smart people. They tell me , In the best year possible there is still guys losing big money and in the worst year possible there is still guys making good money. Many of us have an opinion about the big guys because they are a competitor for land and can have an effect on prices. It is unfortunate that weather they desire it or not many rejoice in the big guy going down, especially see that in Sask. IMO for every BTO that goes down the majority will not fail. Unfortunately the lending institutions can make bad investments and then their reactions to the situation can have far reaching ramifications to a lot of people. I know it is easy to look over the fence and observe a situation and eventually it turns out to be a far different reality. Funny how history repeats itself. In the early 80's the herd was thinned out quite a bit and today may be no different in many ways.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      James, it's not that Saskatchewan farmers cheer when a BTO goes down but most farms are profitable at 5000 acres and down. Studies prove this.

                      A lot of farms find a happy medium that they can handle and don't look over the fence at what others are doing. They realize what makes money and what doesn't.


                      The reality is our area has two BTO farms that were famous, one had big money backing from TO and other was a dream of a few guys to hit it big. Both crashed and burned. Only to be a memory for the area.

                      Yes, they drove up land values and we were told they are so much better a farmer than the rest we cant rent to you. Yea after the crash guess who comes with tail between their legs looking for renters. Now they want stronger deals with locals because of what happened.

                      Most farmers know what's going on and sit back and watch the show.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Here is a profile on these guys.

                        https://www.grainews.ca/news/diversifying-an-alberta-farm/

                        This statement was very informative; The farm’s leased equipment lineup is traded and replaced every year, ensuring not only new and reliable machinery, but also the latest technology.

                        This has all the hall marks of someone who expanded too fast, got caught up in woke jargon and was not hands on in the operation and probably distracted by all the other junk he was too focused on.

                        The losses seem to stem from another side of the operation, his investments whatever those were;

                        Kalco Farms Ltd. ("Farms"), a Gibbons, Alberta-based farm which produces and markets cereal grains such as wheat, barley, and rye, along with Kalco Investments Ltd. ("Investments"), were placed in receivership on January 14 on application by BMO, owed approximately $5.0 million from Farms and $11.2 million from Investments.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          One of the major problem with these type of operations is the investment in grain storage and handling systems. Now the bank has the equivalent of a grain elevator that is poorly located. How are they going to recoup that? There is another farm for sale like this near Wetaskiwin on Farm Real estate centre where they were renting land on the reserve and had storage infrastructure for that. Hard to find a buyer for that. On Kalco's website they have a newsletter posted that detailed their experiences from the 2016 and 17 growing season. They had a betting pool that anyone that got stuck in the spring contributed 12 beer to a fund. In spring of 17 they stopped counting vs 2016 at only 48 beer. Seed in mud and your crop's a dud. No comment on 18, 19 or 20 but on this farm I can relate to their experience in those years and the subsequent three years were worse. Farms need to be small enough that off farm income can pull you through is what we have learned as the secret to success from the past few years.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by ajl View Post
                            One of the major problem with these type of operations is the investment in grain storage and handling systems. Now the bank has the equivalent of a grain elevator that is poorly located. How are they going to recoup that? There is another farm for sale like this near Wetaskiwin on Farm Real estate centre where they were renting land on the reserve and had storage infrastructure for that. Hard to find a buyer for that. On Kalco's website they have a newsletter posted that detailed their experiences from the 2016 and 17 growing season. They had a betting pool that anyone that got stuck in the spring contributed 12 beer to a fund. In spring of 17 they stopped counting vs 2016 at only 48 beer. Seed in mud and your crop's a dud. No comment on 18, 19 or 20 but on this farm I can relate to their experience in those years and the subsequent three years were worse. Farms need to be small enough that off farm income can pull you through is what we have learned as the secret to success from the past few years.
                            Grain storage is a money maker....so I have been told many times on this forum
                            ..

                            Grain elevators want 8 turns a year and farmers settle for 1.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by ajl View Post
                              One of the major problem with these type of operations is the investment in grain storage and handling systems. Now the bank has the equivalent of a grain elevator that is poorly located. How are they going to recoup that? There is another farm for sale like this near Wetaskiwin on Farm Real estate centre where they were renting land on the reserve and had storage infrastructure for that. Hard to find a buyer for that. On Kalco's website they have a newsletter posted that detailed their experiences from the 2016 and 17 growing season. They had a betting pool that anyone that got stuck in the spring contributed 12 beer to a fund. In spring of 17 they stopped counting vs 2016 at only 48 beer. Seed in mud and your crop's a dud. No comment on 18, 19 or 20 but on this farm I can relate to their experience in those years and the subsequent three years were worse. Farms need to be small enough that off farm income can pull you through is what we have learned as the secret to success from the past few years.
                              In a bad year or string of years, I have no one to pay but myself. No iron payments. I can simply stop spending on stuff and live frugally until times get better again. Not fun, but I’ve done it innumerable times. No high priced rent payments. I am a minuscule farm, it embarrasses me how small I am.

                              Now these types have to pay their high rent, iron leases, multiple employees. They harp about supposed efficiencies. Tell me, where are those efficiencies when it gets down to it? I guarantee my costs are less per acre. Yet this is the model so many experts push at us?

                              I simply don’t understand. A profitable five hundred to thousand acre farm using old machinery and getting by for decades is not sexy enough I guess.

                              Comment

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