Guys with livestock.

[Blaithin]

As for bale grazing. The proponents always justify the waste by the benefits the wasted hay does for the soil. Probably true if hay and the land the hay was grown on was free.
Why waste 25% of the hay, when you could just feed 20% more cows with no waste and still do just as much good for the land with the nutrients in the manure, but have 20% more calves for the same feed bill?

Personally, I will put a feeder around the bales keep losses down to a few percent, move the feeders every time I feed and get the benefits of bale grazing. I have enough feeders to feed for 3 to 5 days at a time so still don't need to start the tractor every day. Very little additional fuel required to stack the bales, then haul them back out to where most needed.

Residue layer. Not just fertilizer. Bale grazing isn't solely about fertilizer.

Making the cows clean it up is why I’ve had better luck with bedding as cover than bale grazing.

This year I’m actually having good luck with hailed out barley silage bales. Fair bit of straw in them that gets left behind so it’s a threefor. They eat it. They sleep on it. It’s good cover. I’m excited to see what those spots look like this summer.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Residue layer. Not just fertilizer. Bale grazing isn't solely about fertilizer.

Making the cows clean it up is why I’ve had better luck with bedding as cover than bale grazing.

This year I’m actually having good luck with hailed out barley silage bales. Fair bit of straw in them that gets left behind so it’s a threefor. They eat it. They sleep on it. It’s good cover. I’m excited to see what those spots look like this summer.

I get that the cover is important. But there is much cheaper ways to get cover than to use expensive hay. I consider my straw to be free, since I chop it all back onto the land otherwise, so I bale enough to provide generous bedding all winter, moving it from the richest land to the land in most need of organic matter.

Because I am feeding on crop land, too much hay/straw really hurts the crop the next year tying up all the N, so the waste is a problem.

[DaneG]

I have been using bale feeders to feed bales while bale grazing it seems to promote better feed utilization by the livestock. Waste vs cost of feeders vs fertility value needs to be reconciled by each operation.

[Blaithin]

I think it would need to be a larger herd kept in tight quarters to do efficient bale grazing without feeders. I couldn’t do it, don’t have enough animals. If they get a bale without a ring then they think they’re starving in two days while they stand on top of it and bellow.

[LEP]

I have a friend that rotationally grazings his milking dairy cows. Moves them twice a day. Tissue samples the grass weekly to balance his ration. He is organic and says going to grass fed has been the most profitable change he has made in 35 years of dairy farming. Grass varieties are key for his high nutritional needs. Also has a unique irrigation system sprinkler pods spaced on a long length of hose that he can drag behind the quad.

He had a sister in law in NZ and when he visited it got him interested in giving it a go. It has been close to 10 years now and the cows know the program. I think it is a new half acre paddock every 12 hrs for 100. Followed by dry cows and rested for 60 to 80 days.

[Old Cowzilla]

Most guys home 1/4 s the most fertile here because animal byproducts spread there every year or years ago. I think the trace minerals from the feeding program have something to do with that but I could be wrong. Seams these days we are trying different things fertwise in the grain side to boost yields. Some years if it wasn't for the shitpile I woundn't have anything to show for my work.

[burnt]

Most guys home 1/4 s the most fertile here because animal byproducts spread there every year or years ago....

Some years if it wasn't for the shitpile I woundn't have anything to show for my work.

Had a farm rented many years ago where the barn had been empty for over a decade - but the 10 acre field right next to it evidently got all the manure because the bean crop there was so lush that it got white mold and wizzled up to almost nothing!!

Got an expensive lesson last year in mis-management of the manure pile - yup, I can even mess that up... :-(

Spread it in the spring as usual, worked it in and planted corn. Reduced the NPK application on that section by textbook credits - big mistake.

The actual value was evidently lower than estimated, and the decomposing straw content took nitrogen away from the corn. And this all happened in a perfect growing season after a dry start.

Last fall the yield monitor showed a significant difference between the two sections of field, the manured side had about a ~25 bu yield drag. Ouch.

There will likely be a benefit in the soys on that piece this year - at least that's how I am consoling myself for my mistake.

Talk about an old dog committing a rookie screw up.

[bucket]

Had a farm rented many years ago where the barn had been empty for over a decade - but the 10 acre field right next to it evidently got all the manure because the bean crop there was so lush that it got white mold and wizzled up to almost nothing!!

Got an expensive lesson last year in mis-management of the manure pile - yup, I can even mess that up... :-(

Spread it in the spring as usual, worked it in and planted corn. Reduced the NPK application on that section by textbook credits - big mistake.

The actual value was evidently lower than estimated, and the decomposing straw content took nitrogen away from the corn. And this all happened in a perfect growing season after a dry start.

Last fall the yield monitor showed a significant difference between the two sections of field, the manured side had about a ~25 bu yield drag. Ouch.

There will likely be a benefit in the soys on that piece this year - at least that's how I am consoling myself for my mistake.

Talk about an old dog committing a rookie screw up.

You should read the new code of practice for all that...then you would be able to say you are following voluntary rules...no sense in learning from mistakes ...just follow the code of practice and all will be fine...


(sarcasm)

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Waste vs cost of feeders vs fertility value needs to be reconciled by each operation.

As for the cost of feeders. Compared to the loaded diesel truck, the aluminum stock trailer, the top of the line hydraulic squeeze chute, the new mfwd tractor, new baler etc., feeders are easily te item with the best ROI on any cattle farm. Possibly the only thing in that list with a measurable ROI.

[Sheepwheat]

Great reading thread. I have been unrolling my hay for a few years now. I plan to build a better unroller this summer to be able to do a more even job of it. Seeded several acres of pasture this way. Pretty crazy how it works. My hay is pretty economical and I am one of those who don’t look at it as waste. Long term I hope to have our entire land block fenced. I really want to stubble graze, stockpile, unroll hay on fields that need it most etc. It would be nice to have the freedom to move the animals at will, but year round. Tricky here because of the snow we get and our limited access to our wild out of the way lands in winter.

It would be great to not start a tractor all winter. I set out a bunch of bales before the last cold snap, and did a short term bale graze. It’s funny because the sheep go to all the bales, but they don’t seem to have the strength to get at the hay until I take the twines off so it works great. So I set a new batch out yesterday hope it’s good for ten days. I just go open them up and fork a bunch in a donut around the bale and a pile of sheep can then fit in that small space. The previous bale residue becomes home base for bedding down. They do clean it up pretty good, so long as the hay is good hay. I have some greenfeed that they are more picky about. But I wintering the on a badly overgrazed pasture that I’ve been using while my pasture size was limited. It needs the residue and fertility.

One thing I’ve been wondering about is using the sheep as my spring burn down. The way they graze with their narrow mouths, and their non selective nature, I wonder if it may work on a small scale at least. They can lay a field bare if you let them tarry.

[GDR]

Great reading thread. I have been unrolling my hay for a few years now. I plan to build a better unroller this summer to be able to do a more even job of it.

I personally think on frozen ground, especially with a small amount of snow rolling them out is the least waste and the best spreading of manure and residue. I use feeders in the corral and sometimes in the spring when its muddy if I dont have dry sod to feed on, otherwise they still pull the feed out and stand on it, and leaves rings of shit wherever the feeder is plus compaction. Daily feeding works best for me as it gives you a chance to see if someone's sick or unhappy.

I feed with a gas pickup and bale handler, half silage bales and half dry feed. I can feed 3 bales plus bed a bale all in about 30 mins from key on to key off, days I use the tractor it's double time at least. Works easy and economical for me and my small number of cows. I spoiled myself and put in cattle guards to wintering fields and have a garage door opener on a heated shop for the truck, only time I get out of the truck is to remove twine/wrap. I havent bale grazed myself but have not been impressed watching others try, was popular here 8 or 10 yrs ago, havent seen anyone doing it this year. Have swath grazed, works ok but to do it right takes a fair bit of effort.

I agree with AF5's comment about the value of manure. Most guys look at it as a waste product, I try to look at it as a resource. Feed on knoles and hillsides, makes a huge difference over time.

I do use bale feeders for the sheep but only because they are corralled in the winter. Only top quality and I make them clean it up, they can be very wasteful creatures.

[burnt]

When we had our cows numbers up I built a 3 point hitch bale unroller, slickest thing ever.

One of what I felt the biggest advantages of it was that all the cows got the same chance at the feed for all their feeding time. This was especially valuable when they were getting a mixed quality of feed - the big bosses didn't get to push the smaller ones away from the better stuff.

And as mentioned, come springtime the manure was already spread.

The downside was that in wet or muddy conditions the waste would go sky high. And yes, I called it waste since it could double the feed cost. So they had to push in around the feeders at those times.

One year I was feeding some very mature grass hay. The seeds from it took off over the next year or so and remained visible in the strips where those bales were unrolled for years after..