A cold sunday morning question

[jazz]

https://energynow.ca/2020/01/reality-check-canada-is-uninhabitable-without-fossil-fuels-david-yager/ Repeat After Me: Canada is Uninhabitable Without Fossil Fuels

[foragefarmer]

While Chuck and Forage keep touting hydro as a renewable solution ( which we all agree with), the NFU keeps fighting against hydro. https://www.nfu.ca/national-farmers-union-calls-on-bc-agriculture-minister-to-stop-site-c/ https://www.nfu.ca/national-farmers-union-calls-on-bc-agriculture-minister-to-stop-site-c/
Are these posters so far out in left field that even the communist organization they represent don't
invite them to the meetings anymore? How can they be so far out of touch with their own fellow NFU members?

I see what got you triggered!

"And the 1.5 billion Kenney invested, or the 100,000 orphan wells left behind. Not to mention the countless oil and gas companies who walked away after going bankrupt."


Maybe edit you post again, as it still doesn't make any sense.

[burnt]

https://energynow.ca/2020/01/reality-check-canada-is-uninhabitable-without-fossil-fuels-david-yager/ Repeat After Me: Canada is Uninhabitable Without Fossil Fuels

Of the most cogent lines from the piece:

"In my book I called it a parallel universe, where the basic laws of mathematics, physics, common sense, reality and even basic honesty no longer apply.

Completely bonkers."

It deeply pains me to say this because of the extreme hardship - and likely deaths - it would cause, but the best thing that could happen to this county is for Line 5 to be shut off immediately and Eastern Canada would find out just exactly what petroleum fuels do for them.

There would no doubt be immediate, horrific consequences for humans and livestock, but such a move would also likely have the benefits of ending the WuFlu scam and resulting in getting the Lying Liberal snobs' assess kicked right off the planet.

And if you think that my scenario is cruel and unfeeling, you are ignoring the fact that these same consequences are currently going on right under our noses, but cloaked under the smooth and misleading lingo of Liberal and "green-washed" idiot ideology.

Bottom line: you cannot ignore the laws he lists above and think you're going to get away with it for long.

Canada is currently coasting along on the successes of past enterprises.

Instead of fighting it, maybe we should all be calling on Michigan Gov. Witchen Whitmer asking her to shut off the tap immediately.

[TOM4CWB]

[QUOTE=burnt;486320]Of the most cogent lines from the piece:

"In my book I called it a parallel universe, where the basic laws of mathematics, physics, common sense, reality and even basic honesty no longer apply.

Completely bonkers."

It deeply pains me to say this because of the extreme hardship - and likely deaths - it would cause, but the best thing that could happen to this county is for Line 5 to be shut off immediately and Eastern Canada would find out just exactly what petroleum fuels do for them.

....

Except for the fat cats in Quebec...

Has anyone looked at Montreal [Google Earth is shocking] and see how almost every house has a swimming pool?

Thats right... almost free electricity... Quebec Hydro... exempt as well from the carbon tax... they do live in an alternate reality. Prime Minister JT has no personal consequences for his 'green dream' politics in Quebec.

Now go look at your last heating NG bill... in the middle of the Covid-19 Pandemic...

Cheers to our new 'Green Privilege' Politics...

[shortbox]

[QUOTE=TOM4CWB;486321]

Of the most cogent lines from the piece:

"In my book I called it a parallel universe, where the basic laws of mathematics, physics, common sense, reality and even basic honesty no longer apply.

Completely bonkers."

It deeply pains me to say this because of the extreme hardship - and likely deaths - it would cause, but the best thing that could happen to this county is for Line 5 to be shut off immediately and Eastern Canada would find out just exactly what petroleum fuels do for them.

....

Except for the fat cats in Quebec...

Has anyone looked at Montreal [Google Earth is shocking] and see how almost every house has a swimming pool?

Thats right... almost free electricity... Quebec Hydro... exempt as well from the carbon tax... they do live in an alternate reality. Prime Minister JT has no personal consequences for his 'green dream' politics in Quebec.

Now go look at your last heating NG bill... in the middle of the Covid-19 Pandemic...

Cheers to our new 'Green Privilege' Politics...

Yes it’s strange that natural gas that heats western Canada is charged carbon tax and propane that heats eastern Canada isn’t

[Hamloc]

Manitoba Hydro has power for sale, doesn't get much more renewable than that!

Selling to Minn, Wisconsin, Sk and Ontario.

A quick bit of googling and this headline:globalnews.ca/news/4386169/manitoba-hydros-debt-at-more-than-19-billion-expected-to-rise-to-25-billion-in-five-years.

That debt of $19 billion works out to $13768 per person in Manitoba. Personally I am a fan of hydro but nothing comes for free, site C dam in B.C is a prime example. At least when you invest in hydro you have a dependable power source, wind and solar still cost money to build and are not a reliable source of power generation!! Damn cold this morning -34 here, -42 not far away in Red Deer!!

[AlbertaFarmer5]

A quick bit of googling and this headline:globalnews.ca/news/4386169/manitoba-hydros-debt-at-more-than-19-billion-expected-to-rise-to-25-billion-in-five-years.

That debt of $19 billion works out to $13768 per person in Manitoba. Personally I am a fan of hydro but nothing comes for free, site C dam in B.C is a prime example. At least when you invest in hydro you have a dependable power source, wind and solar still cost money to build and are not a reliable source of power generation!! Damn cold this morning -34 here, -42 not far away in Red Deer!!

Trouble is, in an instant gratification society, and a 4 year election cycle, there is no political capital to be gained by investing in infrastructure that will pay back for decades or centuries to come. Solving actual problems with workable solutions over the long term won't get anyone relected.

[jazz]

A quick bit of googling and this headline:globalnews.ca/news/4386169/manitoba-hydros-debt-at-more-than-19-billion-expected-to-rise-to-25-billion-in-five-years.

That debt of $19 billion works out to $13768 per person in Manitoba. Personally I am a fan of hydro but nothing comes for free, site C dam in B.C is a prime example. At least when you invest in hydro you have a dependable power source, wind and solar still cost money to build and are not a reliable source of power generation!! Damn cold this morning -34 here, -42 not far away in Red Deer!!

MB Hydros debt is larger than the entire provincial debt of Sask and the maritime provinces. Let that sink in for a moment.

I wonder how much hydro Quebec paid for off the back of oil equalization. $600B builds a lot of hydro dams.

Nothing comes for free but somethings can easily cost twice as much as they should.

$480B dropped into a black hole by Trudeau could have converted the entire country to hydro and exported 50% of it to Biden.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I see what got you triggered!

"And the 1.5 billion Kenney invested, or the 100,000 orphan wells left behind. Not to mention the countless oil and gas companies who walked away after going bankrupt."


Maybe edit you post again, as it still doesn't make any sense.

You can call it triggered if you like. I call it trying to make sense of how an organization and its members can hold two completely contradictory views, state them publicly and not have any qualms about being so openly hypocritical. A few of their most recent media pieces include 2 attacks on hydro electricity, one attack on coal mines, and one claiming "The greatest threat to Canadian agriculture is climate change."

Where do you stand on hydro? Are you in solidarity with the NFU?

[foragefarmer]

As stated in a prior post, I acknowledged Manitoba Hydro has huge debt, so why beat a dead horse. What do you guys think is going to happen to Sk and Ab debts when they have to build more hydro facilities. What are your hydro cost in Ab. I heard they are very costly, just from some of the posters on Agriville.

Manitoba Hydro is selling power to the USA and Sask. With the shift coming from the Biden administration the opportunity is there to sell a lot more.

We all see where pipeline construction is going. Manitoba Hydro just completed Bipole III in July of 2018 and just completed a 500 kilovolt line to Minnesota in 2020.

Again, Manitoba Hydro sales are happening and will be increasing to USA and other provinces.


By the way what did you Alberta posters get for your 1.5 Billion dollars?

Ab5, I hope this answers your question as to where I stand regarding Manitoba Hydro, I guess it wasn't clear enough to you in my first two posts. All other posters seem to see where I was coming from based on their replies.

AB5 I have never been a member of any farm organization , your embarrassing yourself with this NFU claims, try to stick on topic for once.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

As stated in a prior post, I acknowledged Manitoba Hydro has huge debt, so why beat a dead horse. What do you guys think is going to happen to Sk and Ab debts when they have to build more hydro facilities. What are your hydro cost in Ab. I heard they are very costly, just from some of the posters on Agriville.

Manitoba Hydro is selling power to the USA and Sask. With the shift coming from the Biden administration the opportunity is there to sell a lot more.

We all see where pipeline construction is going. Manitoba Hydro just completed Bipole III in July of 2018 and just completed a 500 kilovolt line to Minnesota in 2020.

Again, Manitoba Hydro sales are happening and will be increasing to USA and other provinces.


By the way what did you Alberta posters get for your 1.5 Billion dollars?

Ab5, I hope this answers your question as to where I stand regarding Manitoba Hydro, I guess it wasn't clear enough to you in my first two posts. All other posters seem to see where I was coming from based on their replies.

AB5 I have never been a member of any farm organization , your embarrassing yourself with this NFU claims, try to stick on topic for once.

Thanks for responding. Sorry for associating you with Chuck, that wasn't fair to anyone.
Of all the boondoggle investments Canadian politicians have made in recent times, I would consider the debt from Manitoba Hydro to be the best investment going. And if the other provinces, and neighboring states keep committing energy suicide by going to solar and wind, Manitoba will be in an excellent position to cash in on being the battery for those locations, just like Norway is doing for Germany Denmark etc. They are making out like bandits absorbing the overflow ( and getting paid to take it), then selling at extortionate rates to make up the shortfall. This is an investment that will pay for for decades to come, especially as fossil fuel prices are on their way back up long term.

[jazz]

Forage, Sask and AB hydro potential is much closer to the population centers in the provinces so we will only need a fraction of the infrastructure to transmit it. The Bow and sask river hit all the spots needed.

In sask our coal fired plants at Shand and Poplar are right on the US border so the highline infrastructure is already there, just have to reverse the flow of electrons and we could be exporting to the US pretty quickly.

I bet dollars to donuts we could bring a hydro project in on budget here instead of having to go into the remote canadian shield and run 1000km of high line like other provinces are doing.

[bucket]

Forage, Sask and AB hydro potential is much closer to the population centers in the provinces so we will only need a fraction of the infrastructure to transmit it. The Bow and sask river hit all the spots needed.

In sask our coal fired plants at Shand and Poplar are right on the US border so the highline infrastructure is already there, just have to reverse the flow of electrons and we could be exporting to the US pretty quickly.

I bet dollars to donuts we could bring a hydro project in on budget here instead of having to go into the remote canadian shield and run 1000km of high line like other provinces are doing.

Another hydro power plant on either Saskatchewan rivers would be a far better plan than a 4 billion dollar irrigation project...

Think about this ..A hydro plant at the saskatchewan /alberta border and then the water goes through another existing plant at gardiner dam...that is true renewable energy...cascading the water ...

But WTF do I know.

They could also adapt tidal wave technology at the Saskatchewan Landing park and insert something like that in the river flows.

[jazz]

Think about this ..A hydro plant at the saskatchewan /alberta border and then the water goes through another existing plant at gardiner dam...that is true renewable energy...cascading the water ...

Earth constructed dams have a fraction of the cost and risk of those big concrete dams and populations near them that can use the water even just for recreation. A series of cascaded dams on the Sask R would be a boon. And no extra reservoir space needs to be created, just flood the coulees and you have a massive storage.

We need to call back Ralph Goodale. he was the man for our time. Too bad he was such a bootlicker.

[Sheepwheat]

The greenie panic over new dams would be insurmountable. Like nuclear, it won’t fly. Such is the idiocy all around us. Tobin, Codette, and Dief were hard enough, no?