A cold sunday morning question

[AlbertaFarmer5]

The greenie panic over new dams would be insurmountable. Like nuclear, it won’t fly. Such is the idiocy all around us. Tobin, Codette, and Dief were hard enough, no?

And that is what gives Manitoba a huge advantage going forward. Servicing the debt on existing infrastructure will be infinity easier than permitting new infrastructure in this environment.

[dmlfarmer]

Earth constructed dams have a fraction of the cost and risk of those big concrete dams and populations near them that can use the water even just for recreation. A series of cascaded dams on the Sask R would be a boon. And no extra reservoir space needs to be created, just flood the coulees and you have a massive storage.

We need to call back Ralph Goodale. he was the man for our time. Too bad he was such a bootlicker.

Just think if we could somehow use wind and solar (when available and in excess of grid needs) to pump water that has already passed through the dams/turbines back up into the storage reservoir to pass through again and again. It would be like battery storage without the need for rare earth elements. Dams and water storage could be smaller. Environmental impact of dams would be less. Same principle as when every town used to have a water tower to provide energy required for a pressurized water system

No lets just continue to think that battery storage is the only possibility for storing energy. Electrolysis production of hydrogen for fuel, ammonia and fuel cells right are more science fiction right?

[WiltonRanch]

Just think if we could somehow use wind and solar (when available and in excess of grid needs) to pump water that has already passed through the dams/turbines back into the storage reservoir to pass through again and again. It would be like battery storage without the need for rare earth elements. Dams and water storage could be smaller. Environmental impact of dams would be less. No lets just continue to think that battery storage is the only possibility for storing energy. Electrolysis production of hydrogen for fuel, ammonia and fuel cells right are more science fiction right?

That is outside the box thinking which is great. Some water locks operate in similar fashion. Using hydrogen and NH3 as storage is alright. Just need to get efficiency of conversion better. Think what needs an improvement is nitrogen fertilizer production. Hauler-Bosch process uses lots of energy. There are more efficient processes in experimental stages which could reduce costs and energy use but gas is still cheap, and producer won’t change over if it doesn’t warrant.

[jazz]

Just think if we could somehow use wind and solar (when available and in excess of grid needs) to pump water that has already passed through the dams/turbines back into the storage reservoir to pass through again and again. It would be like battery storage without the need for rare earth elements. Dams and water storage could be smaller. Environmental impact of dams would be less. No lets just continue to think that battery storage is the only possibility for storing energy. Electrolysis production of hydrogen for fuel, ammonia and fuel cells right are more science fiction right?

dml, nobody on this forum would object to any combination of energy forms, renewable, non renewable, etc. Solar Wind hydro and storage in any form is critical whether thats line pack, reservoirs or batteries.

Solar for electrolysis of hydrogen, great count me in.

What the problem is is three things,; 1.) greenies ignoring solutions right in front of them like nuclear and 2.) telling us that we have to 100% renewables which is physically impossible at least for the current lifestyle we enjoy. and 3.) trying to dismantle the infrastructure we have right now before any of these technologies are ready for prime time.

Politicians should drop the pointless virtual signaling and get down to real solutions. They would win a lot more converts that what they are doing now.

[Hamloc]

Just think if we could somehow use wind and solar (when available and in excess of grid needs) to pump water that has already passed through the dams/turbines back up into the storage reservoir to pass through again and again. It would be like battery storage without the need for rare earth elements. Dams and water storage could be smaller. Environmental impact of dams would be less. Same principle as when every town used to have a water tower to provide energy required for a pressurized water system

No lets just continue to think that battery storage is the only possibility for storing energy. Electrolysis production of hydrogen for fuel, ammonia and fuel cells right are more science fiction right?

Yes, I agree we need outside the box thinking but with wind only producing 134 megawatts out of 1781 and solar only producing 21 megawatts out of a potential 240 and hydro producing 210 megawatts out of a potential 894 as of 12:35 today how do we keep the lights on when it is -30?

[wmoebis]

We do a lot of off grid camping. We use all forms of services. We make sure our batteries are fully charged from grid before we leave then truck charges while on the road then have solar panels when sun is out and a gas generator if we need it. We also have electric fan on furnace and space heater, but have propane furnace and stove but wood for fire pit for cooking if need be. Propane, gas, battery lights. Don't depend 100% on any one source.

[seldomseen]

Guess i will go a little off topic but Sunday was a cold day with sunshine and about -35 and a light wind. Not to bad doing jobs outside.

Today the wind got up and its absolutely brutal ugly cold!

[Sheepwheat]

Guess i will go a little off topic but Sunday was a cold day with sunshine and about -35 and a light wind. Not to bad doing jobs outside.

Today the wind got up and its absolutely brutal ugly cold!

I have not seen for a long time, maybe ever, temperatures this cold, but WITH THIS CRAZY WIND. I’m glad I plopped bales where I did, fairly close to the bush. A few I set more in the open, because I saw the forecast and wrongly assumed with these temps it would be calm. I was wrong. It’s just gross out there today.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Just think if we could somehow use wind and solar (when available and in excess of grid needs) to pump water that has already passed through the dams/turbines back up into the storage reservoir to pass through again and again. It would be like battery storage without the need for rare earth elements. Dams and water storage could be smaller. Environmental impact of dams would be less. Same principle as when every town used to have a water tower to provide energy required for a pressurized water system

And when this comes to fruition, and wind or solar farms are able to bid on an even playing field offering dispatchable electricity 24/7, I will happily admit that I've been wrong.

I hope this happens. I hope the NIMBY's and eco zealots get out of the way to allow the dams to be built. I hope it can be done cost effectively enough that it can be competitive. And I hope that government policy changes to force all generation sources to be dispatchable by whatever means possible, to financially motivate this type of technology into existence.

In the meantime, I also hope the model Britain is pushing to remotely switch off consumers power without warning or compensation in an effort to stabilize their grid in the absence of storage, doesn't come here before the above mentioned technology gets here:
https://www.thegwpf.com/and-so-it-begins-uk-government-mulls-emergency-measures-that-would-enable-networks-to-switch-off-your-electricity-without-warning-or-compensation/ https://www.thegwpf.com/and-so-it-begins-uk-government-mulls-emergency-measures-that-would-enable-networks-to-switch-off-your-electricity-without-warning-or-compensation/

I find hope is a terrible strategy though.