A cold sunday morning question

[bucket]

Just thinking...if everyone had an electric car and tractor that the environmentalists wanted...would the power grid be able to charge all the equipment and vehicles and heat everyone's homes on a minus 35 day with wind and solar...

Where would the environmentalists be on a minus 30 day with an electric vehicle society???

No cut and paste garbage please , just a discussion on how this could be justified...

And for fun add in a 50kmh wind...

[GDR]

Usually want to stay out of these discussions but had to smile last week. We have an intersection that last fall circumstances changed and now there is foot traffic accross the highway with no crosswalk or lights so in the fall they put up a mobile motion sensor light with 4 big solar panels on a trailer, not sure on watts but would be the size of a sheet of plywood or a bit bigger to run this LED light. Anyhow now there is a honda generator attached to it too so must not be able to keep up.

[shtferbrains]

Saw the same at a narrow bridge we use.

Gensets started in October.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Rough math, it looks like Alberta total energy use is about 10 times our electricity use (please verify, the sources I found were not directly comparable).
In the battery thread, we calculated that one week electricity storage for Albera alone would require spending $3.5 trillion dollars. And that one week of wind and or solar droughts were not at all unusual, in fact 2 to 3 weeks is not unusual in high demand times of the year.

So to go to zero fossil fuels, multiply the 3.5 trillion by 10. To survive a 3 week wind drought in winter multiply that number by 3 and we are now looking at over $100 trillion dollars just for the storage. Just for one province. Not counting the cost of the multiple redundant generation to be able to charge the batteries enough to last for weeks at a time.

[Herc]

Them power lines be like the exhaust of a kohler engine loading a day special of $18 canola....

[helmsdale]

Current Solar production as of 9:25am is 6MW of a total installed capacity of 240MW. I would expect that to go up throughout the day.

Wind currently at 21 of 1781MW.

Did math yesterday and figured solar alone to power current power demands assuming no loss of energy at phase change to and from battery backup would require somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 townships of solar panels...

There is certainly going to be a loss of energy while charging and discharging batteries to levelize out the solar production. Say 90%? that takes us to 55 townships of solar panels.

Now turn our transportation fleet into all electric... And all residential and commercial buildings to resistive electric heat... What's a "conservative" guess? triple the current electrical demand? Now we're looking at something like 167 townships of solar panels? There's roughly 25 useable townships across the bottom of Alberta. I guess if we cover the first 40 miles off the 49th parallel we could do it? Then what, another 2 or 3 miles of batteries?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

To put that large number into perspective, Alberta's economy in 2019 was $347 Billion. So it would take almost 300 years of using all of our GDP just to pay for the storage to be 100% fossil fuel free.

[chuckChuck]

Manitoba has almost a 100% renewable hydro and lots of it.

Range on only EV batteries may be limiting in cold weather. Hybrids with larger batteries and range would be a good compromise for rural areas. Most vehicle trips are of short duration in the city so EVs work better there.

New solid state batteries will likely recharge in just a few minutes. So much like going to a gas station for a refill.

Heavy equipment and trucks more likely to go to hydrogen in the future.

Perhaps A4 can comment on EV range in cold weather.

[tmyrfield]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-solar-bankruptcy-idUSKCN24V3C4 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-solar-bankruptcy-idUSKCN24V3C4


solar not paying the bills...in the desert...in a warm climate.
yeah its going to work here with a -52C windchill

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Manitoba has almost a 100% renewable hydro and lots of it.

Range on only EV batteries may be limiting in cold weather. Hybrids with larger batteries and range would be a good compromise for rural areas. Most vehicle trips are of short duration in the city so EVs work better there.

New solid state batteries will likely recharge in just a few minutes. So much like going to a gas station for a refill.

Heavy equipment and trucks more likely to go to hydrogen in the future.

Perhaps A4 can comment on EV range in cold weather.

Hydrogen is not an energy source.
EV's are not an energy source.
Solid state batteries are not an energy source.

[Robertbarlage]

Semi battery's Froze Co ck stiff! Are tesla battery's made different?

[furrowtickler]

Why no focus at all on bio fuels ?
Even as part of the equation?

[chuckChuck]

https://www.power-eng.com/emissions/japanese-launch-worlds-largest-class-hydrogen-production-unit/#gref https://www.power-eng.com/emissions/japanese-launch-worlds-largest-class-hydrogen-production-unit/#gref

Japanese launch world’s largest-class hydrogen production unit

A Japanese consortium has launched the ***ushima Hydrogen Energy Research Field (FH2R), a renewable energy-powered 10 MW-class hydrogen production unit, the largest-class in the world.

[Guest]

AB5, Your scenario really illustrates , without a doubt ,what critical thinkers are dealing with everywhere
The only way it hits home is when it happens to them personally , sometimes even that doesn’t work

[chuckChuck]

EV batteries are made from lithium and have heating systems to keep the battery warm. Battery technology is changing and improving rapidly.

Japan is betting more on hydrogen as the portable "energy carrier" of the future. Toyota has said all its cars and production will be zero emissions by 2050. They already have at least one mass produced hydrogen model on the road. The Mirai

https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/safety-innovation/hydrogen-fuel-cell-mirai https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/safety-innovation/hydrogen-fuel-cell-mirai

Alberta is already making a plan for further hydrogen development.

Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe. Honda and Hyundai also have a hydrogen fuel cell model.

BC and Quebec have a few hydrogen refueling stations. California has many more.