Be nice to have cheap on farm solar powered Nitrogen plant.

[poorboy]

With all the push to solar, it would sure be nice to have a cheap, low maintenance Nitrogen production facility on farm that could make all your Urea for the next year. Cost of production should be almost zero once the equipment is bought. Just need bin to store for 11 months. If it was automated and used the summer solar power, there is lots of potential.

[Taiga]

Been looking at this, I have a nat gas well on property that was never tied in (not productive enough to build pipeline) but could be used to make fert.
You can buy mini Haber process plants off Alibaba.

[Guest]

Been looking at this, I have a nat gas well on property that was never tied in (not productive enough to build pipeline) but could be used to make fert.
You can buy mini Haber process plants off Alibaba.

interesting !! so could you use that gas if you wanted for grain drying , etc.?
must be lots of out of work nitrogen making machines around the patch from drilling with nitrogen ?

[Taiga]

The local Hutt Colony went through the process of buying a stranded (not tied in) wellsite that was on their property from the oil company. The process took years and was really discouraged by the govt. For some reason the govt doesn’t want individuals owning these, likely for cost of remediation and clean up issues. But they persevered, paid a huge bond, and ended up with it in their control. They heat their poultry barns with it, amongst other things. Apparently it is the first and currently only ‘private’ or landowner owned well in the province.

[helmsdale]

The local Hutt Colony went through the process of buying a stranded (not tied in) wellsite that was on their property from the oil company. The process took years and was really discouraged by the govt. For some reason the govt doesn’t want individuals owning these, likely for cost of remediation and clean up issues. But they persevered, paid a huge bond, and ended up with it in their control. They heat their poultry barns with it, amongst other things. Apparently it is the first and currently only ‘private’ or landowner owned well in the province.

Which province? I know of 1 private land owner nat gas well in AB... It's certainly frowned upon, but it exists.

The land owner has been trying to sell his home quarter thinking the natural gas well is a bonus, but most people have seen it as a detraction.

I've thought about the possibilities, but would really have to crunch the numbers:
-massive grain dryer, and do custom drying. Seems to be quite lucrative these days (even in the special areas), but then we went 100 years prior to the last 10 with zero need for grain drying, so that could end up being a massive money hole.
-small fert production
-either a fleet of 3406's setup on gas powered gen sets (they were giving them away for free here a couple years ago), or even a small turbine for peaking power prices.
-greenhouse... honestly what's the most lucrative piece of real estate on your entire farm? hint: your garden. Now make that garden a 365 day venture and sell to local restaurants and grocery stores.

I think you'd have to get soil cores done on the lease to know what your up against before you could really punch the numbers.

[wmoebis]

What about some geothermal heat from abandoned oil wells? Put a greenhouse or shop right beside it.

[chuckChuck]

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/07/ammonia-renewable-fuel-made-sun-air-and-water-could-power-globe-without-carbon https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/07/ammonia-renewable-fuel-made-sun-air-and-water-could-power-globe-without-carbon

Ammonia—a renewable fuel made from sun, air, and water—could power the globe without carbon

SYDNEY, BRISBANE, AND MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA—The ancient, arid landscapes of Australia are fertile ground for new growth, says Douglas MacFarlane, a chemist at Monash University in suburban Melbourne: vast forests of windmills and solar panels. More sunlight per square meter strikes the country than just about any other, and powerful winds buffet its south and west coasts. All told, Australia boasts a renewable energy potential of 25,000 gigawatts, one of the highest in the world and about four times the planet's installed electricity production capacity. Yet with a small population and few ways to store or export the energy, its renewable bounty is largely untapped.

That's where MacFarlane comes in. For the past 4 years, he has been working on a fuel cell that can convert renewable electricity into a carbon-free fuel: ammonia. Fuel cells typically use the energy stored in chemical bonds to make electricity; MacFarlane's operates in reverse. In his third-floor laboratory, he shows off one of the devices, about the size of a hockey puck and clad in stainless steel. Two plastic tubes on its backside feed it nitrogen gas and water, and a power cord supplies electricity. Through a third tube on its front, it silently exhales gaseous ammonia, all without the heat, pressure, and carbon emissions normally needed to make the chemical. "This is breathing nitrogen in and breathing ammonia out," MacFarlane says, beaming like a proud father.

Companies around the world already produce $60 billion worth of ammonia every year, primarily as fertilizer, and MacFarlane's gizmo may allow them to make it more efficiently and cleanly. But he has ambitions to do much more than help farmers. By converting renewable electricity into an energy-rich gas that can easily be cooled and squeezed into a liquid fuel, MacFarlane's fuel cell effectively bottles sunshine and wind, turning them into a commodity that can be shipped anywhere in the world and converted back into electricity or hydrogen gas to power fuel cell vehicles. The gas bubbling out of the fuel cell is colorless, but environmentally, MacFarlane says, ammonia is as green as can be. "Liquid ammonia is liquid energy," he says. "It's the sustainable technology we need." more

[shtferbrains]

There's your chance Chuck.
Greenfield opportunity for you to get in on the ground floor.
Send him your money. You will be rich in no time.

[chuckChuck]

Send it to Mallee Australia has got more solar resources! LOL

"All told, Australia boasts a renewable energy potential of 25,000 gigawatts, one of the highest in the world and about four times the planet's installed electricity production capacity.

Four times!!!

[poorboy]

Nice to know that the idea is at the small scale prototype stage. Even sounds like its green for the environment.

Fertilizer is one of my biggest costs. Increasing carbon taxes are going to keep pushing the Nitrogen price up.

Solar produced Nitrogen fertilizer might be the answer in the future.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Once we progress from thinking that intermittent energy sources are going to power modern civilizations, and move onto practical technologies, I still see intermittents being used for creating energy intensive storable products such as fertilizers.

But, as for fuels, the efficiency is so awful, that is seems like an unlikely avenue.

Currently, the round-trip efficiency of liquid ammonia is 11-19%, which is similar to the values of liquid hydrogen of 9-22%

https://www.thechemicalengineer.com/features/h2-and-nh3-the-perfect-marriage-in-a-carbon-free-society/#:~:text=Currently%2C%20the%20round%2Dtrip%20effic iency,of%209%2D22%10. https://www.thechemicalengineer.com/features/h2-and-nh3-the-perfect-marriage-in-a-carbon-free-society/#:~:text=Currently%2C%20the%20round%2Dtrip%20effic iency,of%209%2D22%10.

There is such a thing as EROEI. Wind and solar have such low EROEI's to start with that they can't compete as is, now cut that back by 5 to 10 times when trying to store and transport using ammonia or liquid hydrogen.

[chuckChuck]

A5 we are just beginning the exploration of options and your assumptions are that the technology for hydrogen and ammonia as energy carriers will not improve.

https://www.thechemicalengineer.com/features/h2-and-nh3-the-perfect-marriage-in-a-carbon-free-society/#!#:~:text=Currently,%20the%20round-trip%20efficiency,of%209-22%10. https://www.thechemicalengineer.com/features/h2-and-nh3-the-perfect-marriage-in-a-carbon-free-society/#!#:~:text=Currently,%20the%20round-trip%20efficiency,of%209-22%10.

TRANSITIONING our energy economy away from fossil fuel dependence towards one based on renewable and alternative forms of energy requires novel solutions for energy storage, in which the role of hydrogen has promising potential. The intermittency and seasonal variation of solar and wind power leads to a mismatch between energy supply and demand, which will intensify as we decrease our dependence on traditional gas and coal-powered generators. This challenge has driven extensive research into battery, capacitor and chemical energy storage as buffer systems to balance the variation of renewable energy supply on the grid.

As detailed in a previous article of this series1, a significant obstacle to the wider implementation of hydrogen in energy trade is its costly and energy-intensive storage coupled with safety concerns associated with its high flammability. In this article, we focus on the chemical storage of hydrogen in the form of ammonia to alleviate hydrogen’s storage and safety issues. Ammonia is explored as a complementary future energy vector with applications in specific cases.

"Round-trip efficiency

In the future implementation of ammonia in energy trade and storage, a key aspect is the round-trip energy efficiency - taking into consideration the energy required to synthesise ammonia from excess renewable energy and its delivery on demand. Currently, the round-trip efficiency of liquid ammonia is 11-19%, which is similar to the values of liquid hydrogen of 9-22%10. Technological advancements in electrolysis and hydrogen fuel cells will have an impact on both the viability of hydrogen and ammonia as renewable energy storage mediums and vectors, whereas improvements to ammonia synthesis and decomposition, combustion and/or fuel cells will make the use of ammonia more competitive."

[AlbertaFarmer5]

And as usual, Chuck solves all problems with some mythical yet to be concieved of technology that will defy all the laws of physics( especially those pesky first and second laws of thermodynamics).
Why do all of your answers involve something in the future tense? Models, projections etc.

[WiltonRanch]

I hear ya AB. Baby steps first. Small scale ammonia plants on farms which can afford them, or coops building them. Heck FNA there’s your chance! In all seriousness though, nitrogen production consumes lots of energy as it stands. The Hauber-Bosch process is what 25% first run through the catalyst? You would imagine the fertilizer producers would want to get their costs down if there was a better alternative.