Todays Energy Use

[Hamloc]

Also keep in mind that going from 2394 kwh per capita(where we are now), to 9394 kwh per capita an almost 4 fold increase in consumption doesn’t include replacing any diesel powered vehicles nor does it include replacing natural gas as our main home heating fuel with electricity, something that is also being strongly advocated for by green activists. How much more electricity will that take?! The numbers boggle the mind, the average consumer has no idea the s#*t storm that is being contemplated and advocated!!!

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

Also keep in mind that going from 2394 kwh per capita(where we are now), to 9394 kwh per capita an almost 4 fold increase in consumption doesn’t include replacing any diesel powered vehicles nor does it include replacing natural gas as our main home heating fuel with electricity, something that is also being strongly advocated for by green activists. How much more electricity will that take?! The numbers boggle the mind, the average consumer has no idea the s#*t storm that is being contemplated and advocated!!!

So you think that the average EV owner is using an extra 7000kWh per year? I use an average of 180Wh/km (this is higher than my lifetime average on a model 3 over 2.5 winters and 80% highway). 5km/1000Wh. Does the average person drive 35,000km/year? Why do farmers like GPS steering in their tractors, combines, sprayers, etc but bash an EV that can steer itself on the highway (not to mention stop automatically at red lights, pass slower vehicles on its own, merge in and out of traffic on the Deerfoot) ?

[shtferbrains]

Good info but you missed the km yr.
Is the extream cold any issue in your situation?
I assume you have heated garage but what if you sit outdoors for 10 hrs?

[chuckChuck]

EVs or PHEVs make the most sense for the forseeable future.

A4 how much battery capacity is lost due to cold weather in real world conditions?

Fast recharging solid state batteries are coming to the EV market which will alleviate some of the cold weather range anxiety.

[FarmJunkie]

Go try and start your auger today and let us know how it goes

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

EVs or PHEVs make the most sense for the forseeable future.

A4 how much battery capacity is lost due to cold weather in real world conditions?

Fast recharging solid state batteries are coming to the EV market which will alleviate some of the cold weather range anxiety.

I recently did a long highway trip in -25 to -33 with a fair bit of a headwind and my energy use at 100-110km/h was about 230Wh/km (about 50% higher than the summer). If you have proper fast DC charging it's not a big deal. If you don't have proper charging it's not fun.

If you parked at 80% and left the car unplugged in -25 or lower you would probably have 70% in the morning (this is mostly due to the battery being too cold to access the available energy). It's best to plug in if you're leaving it outside and need to use it the next morning.

[jazz]

Go try and start your auger today and let us know how it goes

In winter, most Tesla owners will be making a quick spin around the block most days or to local work and back into the warm garage and trickle charger. They will need charging ability at their origination and their destinations. So every parking lot will need chargers too and hundreds of locations along those destinations when they are outside of major cities. There will need to be emergency mobile charging crews spanning the country. The redundancy that needs to be put into charging is the same argument why solar and wind cant replace FF. And redundancy needs more energy, not less.

So not much miles = not much energy = not much utility.

Last time I checked my autosteer didnt put me in the risk of a dozen car pile up at 100kmh with no time for human intervention. Autonomous driving will only be safe when every car is on it.

To love technology is one thing, we all do. And there is definitely a select market for EVs in many places.

But to deny physics is another entire level.

I think its clear the EV is meant mainly for city use.

[Guest]

Go try and start your auger today and let us know how it goes

sidenote, not trying to derail
just get one of those stick on rubber heat pads for $70 from canadian tire for oil pan , starts at -40 with 0w30 oil
i kinda find those hybrid vehicles intriguing , tho

[oneoff]

Is everyone noticing and acknowledging that Tesla charges $0.24US for each Kwh at Tesla suoercharging stations. That's a pretty hefty markup for electricity that is argued to be able to be produced for a few mere cents per Kwh.
Its one thing to be sucked into sales pitches that claim X amounts of recharge cycles; and not twigg to the fact that there are reasons why batteries have all but failed when they begin to not hold a charge or no longer deliver the power you need to get the hours of use required. That will always come to soon in a fickle disposable society.
Let alone problems of self discharge; electrical distribution upgrades for the whole of theutility upgrade; and as recently mentioned home vehicle charging would normally occur overnight when solar production is non existent etc.

How the entire electrical distribution network can be upgraded in short order is never addressed by those advocating multiple times greater electrical usage.
Residential electrical demands might currently be 10-20 Kwh per day. Increasing that to 80 Kwh per day due to their deliberate decisions isn't simply a matter of increasing the average usage by 4 times. That supersucker charger in their garage their would best be run by 480V 3 phase power. Just putting in a larger fuse won't solve the problem; but it will result in additional bad results.

After all there is no sense denying what Tesla knows (and the customer should know) that there are reasons the electric vehicle charge station fee has to be 24 cent US (per Kwh).
Three phase service isn't cheap; it also isn't widely available; and wiring isn't going to get a passed through electrical inspection when done by a farmer (or especially city handyman). Hell you could't even get past the application for such a home owner electrical permit.
All this will become clear to those now convinced of the electric vehicle concept; and will soon be holding the bill for 480V equipment. Only then they may well fully recognize more of what should have been budgeted within the deposit laid down towards a promise of that fantastic futuristic transportation solution. Oh...and is any one sure that delivery of that dream EV will ever be produced by that manufacturer.
Of course the Tesla supercharging station can be used by those with no respect for money; and apparently also not caring about the actual full costs and CO2 equivalents of associated collateral damage.

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

In winter, most Tesla owners will be making a quick spin around the block most days or to local work and back into the warm garage and trickle charger. They will need charging ability at their origination and their destinations. So every parking lot will need chargers too and hundreds of locations along those destinations when they are outside of major cities. There will need to be emergency mobile charging crews spanning the country. The redundancy that needs to be put into charging is the same argument why solar and wind cant replace FF. And redundancy needs more energy, not less.

So not much miles = not much energy = not much utility.

Last time I checked my autosteer didnt put me in the risk of a dozen car pile up at 100kmh with no time for human intervention. Autonomous driving will only be safe when every car is on it.

To love technology is one thing, we all do. And there is definitely a select market for EVs in many places.

But to deny physics is another entire level.

I think its clear the EV is meant mainly for city use.

I've put 80,000km on my EV in 26 months. How much city driving is that? Speaking of physics... which is better energy efficiency, 80% or 26%?

[chuckChuck]

Untill solid state rapid charge batteries are in wide use EVs will be limited for long range in western Canada.

But most personal vehicle trips are short commuter trips that will work well for PHEV or EVs. You wont need a charger at work in other words.

Upgrading the electrical system to handle this load will take some time. But during a cold spell many vehicles are already plugged in for up to 12 hours a day which is a significant amount of electricity use.

The total cost of operating EVs will probably be much lower that ICE vehicles. We have only had EVs and PHEV of any number, for a few years. There will be massive change in this segment in the next decade.

None of us are still driving a Ford Model A are we?

[Robertbarlage]

Alberta 4 how much are you paying to charge your vehicale?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Why do Chuck's solutions always involve some mythical technology that hasn't been invented yet?

Thanks for answering my question AF4, that has been my conclusion too.

[shtferbrains]

Appreciate the chance to chat with actual owner.

If you had 2 vehicles to chose from today and had a 3hr one way trip with return same day do you take the Tesla.

What about the logistcs of heading for say Palm Springs?

[chuckChuck]

Why do Chuck's solutions always involve some mythical technology that hasn't been invented yet?

Thanks for answering my question AF4, that has been my conclusion too.

A5 is this the mythical yet to be invented technology you speak of? Wrong again!

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Most-read-in-2020/Toyota-s-game-changing-solid-state-battery-en-route-for-2021-debut https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Most-read-in-2020/Toyota-s-game-changing-solid-state-battery-en-route-for-2021-debut

Toyota's game-changing solid-state battery en route for 2021 debut

Japan's government to join forces with industry to supercharge development
Toyota Motor President Akio Toyoda speaks in front of an image of a concept car during the North American International Auto Show in Detroit. © Reuters
Nikkei staff writersDecember 10, 2020 07:29 JST

TOKYO -- A trip of 500 km on one charge. A recharge from zero to full in 10 minutes. All with minimal safety concerns. The solid-state battery being introduced by Toyota promises to be a game changer not just for electric vehicles but for an entire industry.

The technology is a potential cure-all for the drawbacks facing electric vehicles that run on conventional lithium-ion batteries, including the relatively short distance traveled on a single charge as well as charging times. Toyota plans to be the first company to sell an electric vehicle equipped with a solid-state battery in the early 2020s. The world's largest automaker will unveil a prototype next year.

The electric vehicles being developed by Toyota will have a range more than twice the distance of a vehicle running on a conventional lithium-ion battery under the same conditions. All accomplished without sacrificing interior space in even the most compact vehicle.

Solid-state batteries are expected to become a viable alternative to lithium-ion batteries that use aqueous electrolyte solutions. The innovation would lower the risk of fires, and multiply energy density, which measures the energy a battery can deliver compared to its weight.

It would take roughly 10 minutes to charge an electric vehicle equipped with a solid-state battery, cutting the recharging time by two-thirds. The battery can extend the driving distance of a compact electric vehicle while maintaining legroom.

Toyota stands at the top of the global heap with over 1,000 patents involving solid-state batteries. Nissan Motor plans to develop its own solid-state battery which will power a non-simulation vehicle by 2028.

The shift toward the new battery technology will also have an effect on companies further down the supply chain.

Japanese auto materials makers are rushing to set up the necessary infrastructure to supply automakers. Mitsui Mining and Smelting, commonly known as Mitsui Kinzoku, will start up a pilot facility that will make solid electrolytes for the batteries.

The production site, located at a research and development center in Saitama Prefecture, will be able to produce dozens of tons of solid electrolyte annually staring next year, enough to fulfill orders for prototypes.

Oil company Idemitsu Kosan is installing solid electrolyte production equipment at its Chiba Prefecture site with the aim of beginning operation next year. Manufacturing solid electrolytes requires solidifying sulfides, which is a specialty of the metal and chemical industry. Sumitomo Chemical is developing material as well.

Japanese manufacturers like Sony and Panasonic have been pioneers in commercializing battery cells for vehicles. But since the late 2000s, Chinese rivals have emerged to prominence. Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. Limited, also known as CATL, is now the world's largest supplier of lithium ion batteries. Japan's Asahi Kasei, once the global leader in battery separator material, gave up the crown last year to Shanghai Energy.

Electric vehicles are anticipated to become commonplace amid the global shift away from carbon. The Japanese government has been encouraging the domestic development of solid-state batteries, under the outlook that most of the technology relating to automotive performance will depend on China if the status quo holds.

The government is putting together a fund of about 2 trillion yen ($19.2 billion) that will support decarbonization technology. Policymakers will consider using those funds to provide subsidies of hundreds of billions of yen that will fund the development of the new batteries.

The goal is to support the development of a mass-production infrastructure within Japan. Because solid-state batteries use lithium, an element with limited global reserves, the government will assist in procuring the material.

The rest of the world is following suit. Germany's Volkswagen plans to have production running for solid-state batteries as soon as 2025 via a joint-venture with a U.S. startup.

Chinese tech group QingTao (Kunshan) Energy Development will spend over 1 billion yuan ($153 million) into R&D of solid-state batteries, among other areas. The investment will last for three years starting in 2021.