UBI, the plan way out of govt debt

[burnt]

[burnt]

It's a snowy, blowy day here.

Might be a good one to settle back and watch "Atlas Shrugged" again...

[burnt]

I could possibly support a UBI under the following conditions.

If the stated purpose is:

1) to shrink government, not grow government.
2)Eliminate every other social program
3)Eliminate most of the civil service who otherwise would be administering those programs
4)Eliminate most labour laws, particularly minium wage
5)Oulaw labour unions, since they would no longer be necessary
6)Total spending would actually go down not up
7)It removes any possibilities of buying elections by promising more free stuff by increasingly taking it away from those who don't vote for them at every election. Governments can get back to governance, instead of redistribution.(Which sounds ironic given the topic, but if this was a one and done deal, then forever more, there would be no more freebie promises, instead of the creeping socialism we have now, where each party tries to out promise the other.
8)We find some way to keep everyone motivated in spite of being paid to be demotivated, and I honestly haven't figured this one out yet.

Since none of these seem to be true according to any analysis or experiments I've seen, I'll pass on this one.

Oh you devious, divisive lil rascal - pitting the left against itself!!

[burnt]

Will be interesting to see replies to this ...

Disinformation. It's all disinformation.

Except for the parts that are already taking shape?

[jazz]

It's a snowy, blowy day here.

Might be a good one to settle back and watch "Atlas Shrugged" again...

A great cautionary tale however it left off one critical modern mechanism.

Now days the fed prints up money from thin air which billionaires use to buy up productive assets from everyone else and then the collective serfdom can continue unimpeded.

Atls shrugged was written when small productive capital business was thriving. It didnt take into account that we would morph into a oligarchy with billionaires at the helm of it all.

If Gates bought up a bunch of farmland for $10k an acre here, I dont know any farmer that wouldnt be first in line to sell.

Atlas shrugged only works if the smaller guy insists on owning the factors of production. Free money changes that equation pretty fast.

[Austrian Economics]

A great cautionary tale however it left off one critical modern mechanism.

Now days the fed prints up money from thin air which billionaires use to buy up productive assets from everyone else and then the collective serfdom can continue unimpeded.

Atls shrugged was written when small productive capital business was thriving. It didnt take into account that we would morph into a oligarchy with billionaires at the helm of it all.

If Gates bought up a bunch of farmland for $10k an acre here, I dont know any farmer that wouldnt be first in line to sell.

Atlas shrugged only works if the smaller guy insists on owning the factors of production. Free money changes that equation pretty fast.

Eventually, so much capital is destroyed by zero percent interest that the economy can't function any more. Growing debt is like a big, wet blanket that smothers the productive. Periodically, archaeologists dig up ancient Roman coin hoards. When the Roman Empire collapsed, someone obviously came into possession of massive amounts of coins. But with the economy collapsing, there was nothing to buy, so the coins became useless.

[biglentil]

Eventually, so much capital is destroyed by zero percent interest that the economy can't function any more. Growing debt is like a big, wet blanket that smothers the productive. Periodically, archaeologists dig up ancient Roman coin hoards. When the Roman Empire collapsed, someone obviously came into possession of massive amounts of coins. But with the economy collapsing, there was nothing to buy, so the coins became useless.

The word debasement comes from the Roman's shrinking silver content of the coinage. There is nothing new under the sun.

The Silver Content In The Denarius Under Various Emperors

Augustus (ruled : 27 BC/BCE-14 AD/CE) 97/98%.
Claudius (ruled : 41-54 AD/CE) 97%.
Nero (ruled : 54-68 AD/CE) 97%.
Vitellius (ruled: 69 AD/CE) 81%
Domitian (ruled: 81-96 AC/CE) 92%
Trajan (ruled: 98-117 AD/CE) 93%
Hadrian (ruled: 117-138 AD/CE) 87%
Antoninus Pius (ruled: 138-161 AD/CE) 75%
Marcus Aurelius (ruled: 161-180 AD/CE) 68%
Septimius Severus (ruled: 193-211 AD/CE) 50%
Elagabalus (ruled: 218-222 AD/CE) 43%
Severus Alexander (ruled: 222-235 AD/CE) 35%
Gordian III (ruled: 238-244 AD/CE) 28%
Philip ‘The Arab’ (ruled: 244-249 AD/CE) 0.50%
Claudius II [‘Gothicus’] (ruled: 268-270 AD/CE) 0.02%

[Ache4Acres]

The word debasement comes from the Roman's shrinking silver content of the coinage. There is nothing new under the sun.

The Silver Content In The Denarius Under Various Emperors

Augustus (ruled : 27 BC/BCE-14 AD/CE) 97/98%.
Claudius (ruled : 41-54 AD/CE) 97%.
Nero (ruled : 54-68 AD/CE) 97%.
Vitellius (ruled: 69 AD/CE) 81%
Domitian (ruled: 81-96 AC/CE) 92%
Trajan (ruled: 98-117 AD/CE) 93%
Hadrian (ruled: 117-138 AD/CE) 87%
Antoninus Pius (ruled: 138-161 AD/CE) 75%
Marcus Aurelius (ruled: 161-180 AD/CE) 68%
Septimius Severus (ruled: 193-211 AD/CE) 50%
Elagabalus (ruled: 218-222 AD/CE) 43%
Severus Alexander (ruled: 222-235 AD/CE) 35%
Gordian III (ruled: 238-244 AD/CE) 28%
Philip ‘The Arab’ (ruled: 244-249 AD/CE) 0.50%
Claudius II [‘Gothicus’] (ruled: 268-270 AD/CE) 0.02%

That took 250 years!!!

[blackpowder]

One more thought and flame away.
I wonder if the EI rules for fisherman ruined the east coast?

[SASKFARMER]

Good point

[jazz]

One more thought and flame away.
I wonder if the EI rules for fisherman ruined the east coast?

East coast fisheries were decimated when the govt prevented them from fishing for a generation, only to have them drop out onto permanent assistance through welfare, EI and transfer payments.

Now china fishes off the coast and processes that food in their home country and exports it here and nobody worries about fish stocks anymore and now there are 2M dependent maritimers that vote liberal.

[Old Cowzilla]

East coast fishermen realized that E.I. was destroying their future so they left for the oil patch to make a future for themselves and families only to see our government destroy it again. I wonder who they will vote for next time ?

[blackpowder]

So you guys know some maritimers, good.
Love em just cant live with em lol.
Next question. I realize this only works in smaller towns.
Think of all the un or under employed. Now think of those always busy doing something.
Is it always the same people?

[Old Cowzilla]

Always the same 1/2 dozen people organizing things in town . Those folks never sleep !

[blackpowder]

Now to any one who has spent a little time surfing govt websites.
IF they could boil every single catch phrase program in the books into one.
The only requirement an ID card. OOps the border will get busy.
Anyway one system, no hoops, no loopholes. No ad hoc. Equal across the country. But the govt cant even think that way. Heck, half would be unemployed themselves.
Maybe that would be cheaper. But never happen that way.