Pumped Hydro Storage For Solar and Wind

[Rareearth]

No way pumping water from the bottom of the dam after it goes through turbines back to the top is effective, profitable or otherwise.
I don’t think there is a perpetual motion system yet. Maybe if your short of water for drinking, or heaven forbid irrigation.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

My apologies Chuck, I neglected to use the sarcasm tag, I thought it was obvious.
The only existing economic grid scale storage technology we have is pumped hydro. Which requires only two geographic features, elevation and water.
Switzerland is almost entirely mountains and water. So they built this mechanical contraption instead.

This is in the same category as burning north American trees in British power plants and pretending it doesn't emit CO2.
Anything can be justified in the name of green energy. And Chuck can be counted on to defend it.

[dalek]

My apologies Chuck, I neglected to use the sarcasm take, I thought it was obvious.
The only existing grid scale storage we have is pumped Hydro. Which requires only two geographic features, Mountains and water.
Switzerland is almost entirely mountian and water. So they built this mechanical contraption instead.

Holes work just as well as mountains. The one proposed and still being studied here would use an old open pit iron mine, use the spoil piles already sitting up top to make a storage lake above ground level, and use the water that’s already in the mine that they quit pumping out when the iron ran out. Average fall through the turbines would be 2.5 times the height of NiagaraFalls.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Holes work just as well as mountains. The one proposed and still being studied here would use an old open pit iron mine, use the spoil piles already sitting up top to make a storage lake above ground level, and use the water that’s already in the mine that they quit pumping out when the iron ran out. Average fall through the turbines would be 2.5 times the height of NiagaraFalls.

Yes thanks, I meant to say elevation, not mountains. Edited accordingly.

[Hamloc]

You boys still using party lines or what? LOL

It is interesting to me that nobody ever challenges you on this statement. There was certainly a progression from party lines to private lines and now cell phones. In your world solar and wind are a technological advancement. But are they really?! We are going from power sources that can produce dependable electricity 24 hours a day in any season of the year. Coal, natural gas, nuclear can all provide power on demand any hour of the day any season of the year! Solar and wind are intermittent. In the case of solar they require a very large land footprint to create power on an industrial scale, not a problem in the desert in the southern U.S. but where I live land is $5000 an acre. All the hardware will be manufactured in a foreign country. In a Northern country like Canada our largest power requirement in the middle of winter when solar produces the least. Every megawatt of solar requires a megawatt of power from another source to be available when the sun isn’t. So solar has a larger land footprint and is intermittent how is that a technological advancement? If I had to buy 3 combines to do the job of one would that be more efficient?

[chuckChuck]

Solar, intermittent or not, the fuel source is free and unlimited. The cost per kwh is very low and going lower. And panels can go on top of buildings and roofs of which there are thousands of acres across North America.

So of all the things you buy are they all made in Canada? i doubt it. Where is your engine and other components made for your farm equipment and vehicles?

Matched with Electric Vehicles and PHEVs, which can be often charged during the day while workers are working, there will be growing demand for solar electricity which can be stored in EVs.

And we will still need fossil fuels, hydro, wind, geo-thermal, co-generation and probably nuclear and all the other options as well.

But why not use solar where it is cost effective?

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"For the first time in history, our transformative energy storage technology enables renewables to deliver around-the-clock baseload power for less than the cost of fossil fuels. Energy Vault’s ready-to-deploy solution combined with low cost solar or wind renewable generation is lower than the most economical existing, fully-amortized fossil fuel-based power plants (i.e. combined cycle natural gas)."

[blackpowder]

Can we at least support our current infrastructure somewhat until technology catches up. Winter doesn't care how many points we've earned.

[chuckChuck]

Do you really think they would shut off the fossil fuel plants without viable and reliable alternatives?

Texas after their gas supply froze and demand skyrocketed proved that its not a good idea.

But i know this is the either or club. And many posters can't get their head around the fact that we can transition to lower fossil fuel use. Its not either fossil fuels or renewables. Its all sources as we transition.

[jazz]

Read the studies chuck, there is no way in hell that solar and wind can keep 8B people at our current lifestyle let alone let the poorest of us advance any further. And nuclear is totally ignored for some reason. Never hear a peep about it.

But thats not the plan anyway; the plan is to get the public to accept living at something around the lifestyle of 1910 or so. Make that assumption and boom, solar and wind work like gangbusters.

Funny thing is, after covid, a lot of people will accept that Faustian bargain no problem. They will shelter in place, take their UBI pittance and take the bus and spend their days eating tofu and watching netflix and they will be content. They will have no problem rationing for the greater good when it comes time, because we are all in this together.

[blackpowder]

No one immune to the either or club.
Your "side" can get way out there sometimes too chuck.