Supreme Court rules Ottawa's carbon tax is constitutional

[furrowtickler]

What’s Quebec’s Corbin tax again ? $17/tn ?

When is $17 and $170 equal ?
Must be new math .

[AlbertaFarmer5]

The purpose of carbon pricing is not taxation for the purpose of raising revenues but to reduce consumption of fossil fuels thereby reducing emissions and for the action to work it has to be applied nationally.

I would take that one step further. If you accept the arguement that we need to reduce emissions, then any policy has to be applied GLOBALLY, not nationally. Punishing energy intensive industries in one country, while other countries are completely exempt only forces more industries to move offshore to where they can afford to compete in the global market place.

[furrowtickler]

[jazz]

I suggest you go back to your google law degree and reread the section on Pith and Substance .

The primacy of our law is based on the constitution, nothing else, not some convoluted clauses that were obviously over relied on.

That premise is simple, 10 provinces and 2 territories agree to form a confederation with the understanding that matters of provincial jurisdiction are not impeded or infringed. That premise is as important as anything in our charter including individual rights. A govt could not get away with treating 2 individuals different under the law, nor should it get away with treating 2 provinces different.

Its classic state sanctioned discrimination no matter what formula you apply to it. One part of the country treated favorably vs one punished over a flimsy argument that cannot even be proven.

Sorry dml, your spin isnt going to work on this one. Its clear as day and night. Obviously there is a faction in our govt who no longer respect that document and are vying for a different style of govt, one with a lot more central planning and enforcement.

I would take that one step further. If you accept the argument that we need to reduce emissions, then any policy has to be applied GLOBALLY, not nationally. Punishing energy intensive industries in one country, while other countries are completely exempt only forces more industries to move offshore to where they can afford to compete in the global market place.

lets examine that AF, what is the other punitive tax that exists to discourage use? How about taxes on smokes and alcohol. is that applied unevenly across the country? Nope, not a chance, the tax rate is the same for smokes in Que as it is in Ab. And Quebec is not allowed to design some cigarette harm offset program to counter it. They pay the same rate as the rest of us, period.

[flea beetle]

Its tax season bud. Check your tax return when you file it. Alberta and Saskatchewan residents get the highest carbon tax credits of any province. On average these residents get more back than they pay.

https://www.hrblock.ca/blog/what-is-the-climate-action-incentive-heres-how-it-affects-your-taxes/ https://www.hrblock.ca/blog/what-is-the-climate-action-incentive-heres-how-it-affects-your-taxes/

"After I pay the fuel charge and get the Climate Action Incentive rebate, how much money am I left with?

The government estimates that most families will continue to get more money back than they pay. According to the Department of Finance Canada, here’s what the average household might be left with after paying the fuel charge and getting the CAI rebate:
Ontario $153
Manitoba $243
Saskatchewan $249

Alberta $355

UMMM...just the extra cost of groceries because of the carbon tax hits everybody harder in the pocket than those numbers. Nevermind the extra cost of gas/diesel/natural gas/propane.

[chuckChuck]

The difference is dml, I am not politically tainted like our judiciary has been.

I see you have no rebuttal to my argument. Is equal application of the law not a founding principle or our constitution?

We now have 3 programs in violation of that principle. Carbon Pricing, Equalization and CPP. All gamed against one part of the country for the benefit of another by tinkering with wording and formulas.

"I am not politically tainted like our judiciary has been." Jazz you got to be kidding! LMAO

Jazz, the self declared most neutral, objective and non political poster on Agrisilly!

Posters say the darndest things!

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I just read this elsewhere:

A guy that works at the local potash mine said that the carbon is tax is 20% of their operating cost and will be increasing each year

I have no way to verify that, but sounds plausible. As with most any industry such as mining, their business model is essentially consuming vast amounts of energy to access, extract process and market a product. There really are no costs that aren't directly or indirectly related to energy or the energy inherent in the prodcts or services they require. Even wages are basically providing people with the means to buy the energy and the products made by energy that they need to survive. They don't just throw dollar bills ( loonies) into a mine shaft and out comes ready to serve potash.

So how is this revenue neutral?
This industry, somewhat uniquely has the ability to pass those costs on to the end user. The end user being us.

Chuck, do you care to guess how this affects their competitiveness in the world market?

Do you see how these processes could be done without energy or with much less? Or will it simply add to the costs? That is the supposed intended purpose of this tax. Do solar panels work effectively in the bottom of a mine shaft?

[chuckChuck]

"Do solar panels work effectively in the bottom of a mine shaft?" Huh? They don't need to be installed down the shaft to work do they? I guess you have never heard of wires to conduct electricity? LOL

Plus when renewables are hooked into the grid its pretty hard to tell from which generation source the electricity come from! So in fact wind and solar can do work underground. Already doing so, since both Alberta and Saskatchewan have some renewable generation sources and are adding more.

Carbon tax 20% per cent of their costs? Is that from the COO or the miner underground who probably doesn't know? Best to have reliable sources for arguments before you bring them up.

Large emitters in Saskatchewan and Alberta are covered under provincial carbon taxes and emission reduction programs.

And much of Europe is covered by some forms of carbon pricing and the US is heading that way.

You should ask some of the Conservatives who support carbon taxes to explain how they work and why they are needed.

[Hamloc]

You should ask some of the Conservatives who support carbon taxes to explain how they work and why they are needed.

The fact of the matter is they don’t work Chuck2 and as evidence I will use ghg emission levels in all Canadian provinces from 2005 compared to the latest year available 2018. There are 5 provinces in Canada that have reduced their ghg emissions compared to 2005. Quebec -4%, Ontario -18.8%, P.E.I.-19%, Nova Scotia -26.4% and New Brunswick -34%. None of these provinces had a carbon tax before 2017. Now the 5 provinces in Canada where emissions went up since 2005. Newfoundland Labrador +4.76%, British Columbia +5.6%, Manitoba +8.45%, Saskatchewan +12.1% and Alberta +17.5%. Two of these provinces have had the longest running carbon taxes in Canada. Alberta instituted one on industrial emissions I believe in 2007 and British Columbia the much celebrated consumer carbon tax in 2008! Please explain to me again Chuck2 why in the hell we need a carbon tax?!

[chuckChuck]

Hamloc you are probably a former Reform party supporter.

Why not ask Preston Manning who supports carbon pricing as the most effective market driven way of driving down emissions.

Manning calls on Conservatives to stop attacking carbon pricing
By Janice *****on. Published on Mar 8, 2017 5:16pm

https://ipolitics.ca/2017/03/08/manning-calls-on-conservatives-to-stop-attacking-carbon-pricing/ https://ipolitics.ca/2017/03/08/manning-calls-on-conservatives-to-stop-attacking-carbon-pricing/

Chris Selley: Preston Manning has answer to carbon problem, but clout with conservatives seems in decline

Manning has argued tirelessly with Reform's spiritual heirs that simple, revenue-neutral carbon pricing is the most conservative approach available to fighting emissions

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/chris-selley-preston-manning-has-answer-to-carbon-problem-but-clout-with-conservatives-seems-in-decline https://nationalpost.com/opinion/chris-selley-preston-manning-has-answer-to-carbon-problem-but-clout-with-conservatives-seems-in-decline

Preston Manning in favour of putting a price on carbon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS9BXeSo7PY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS9BXeSo7PY

[Hamloc]

Hamloc you are probably a former Reform party supporter.

Why not ask Preston Manning who supports carbon pricing as the most effective market driven way of driving down emissions.

Manning calls on Conservatives to stop attacking carbon pricing
By Janice *****on. Published on Mar 8, 2017 5:16pm

https://ipolitics.ca/2017/03/08/manning-calls-on-conservatives-to-stop-attacking-carbon-pricing/ https://ipolitics.ca/2017/03/08/manning-calls-on-conservatives-to-stop-attacking-carbon-pricing/

Chris Selley: Preston Manning has answer to carbon problem, but clout with conservatives seems in decline

Manning has argued tirelessly with Reform's spiritual heirs that simple, revenue-neutral carbon pricing is the most conservative approach available to fighting emissions

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/chris-selley-preston-manning-has-answer-to-carbon-problem-but-clout-with-conservatives-seems-in-decline https://nationalpost.com/opinion/chris-selley-preston-manning-has-answer-to-carbon-problem-but-clout-with-conservatives-seems-in-decline

Preston Manning in favour of putting a price on carbon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS9BXeSo7PY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS9BXeSo7PY

Chuck2 I don’t give a schit what Preston Manning thinks about a carbon tax, I just showed you Canada’s numbers province by province showing you a carbon tax has not reduced emissions in the provinces that enacted them and that is your response? I must be a reformer? Fml!

[Hamloc]

Besides Chuck2 B.C. has had a carbon tax similar to what Preston Manning suggested where you tax C02 emissions and lower income and other taxes. It didn’t lower emissions! A carbon tax is just another tax! It isn’t a so called climate policy and it doesn’t lower emissions but there is no politician federally with the nerve to point this out!

[AlbertaFarmer5]

This is priceless, Chuck avoids answering every serious question, yet makes great effort to respond to my smart ass comment about solar panels in the bottom of a mine shaft.

Unfortunately, he responded a few days too soon, as it turns out, they do work.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/04/01/new-nightshine-solar-panels-game-changers-in-fight-against-climate-heating/ https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/04/01/new-nightshine-solar-panels-game-changers-in-fight-against-climate-heating/

Notice the date of the Article, it is today, April 1, so to give Chuck credit, he couldn't have known about this breakthrough when he posted.