Damp and BS CHUCK

[helmsdale]

.47" here total. Should be able to get germination on everything, thank goodness.

[Happytrails]

It’s a great rain for seeding. The grass can use all that comes. It’s a start!

[chuckChuck]

SF

Glad to see you are now in agreement with Koonin who admits that there is clear evidence the world is warming because of increasing levels of CO2 from human sources. That's a step forward.

Koonin's quote from the WSJ :

“The crucial scientific question for policy isn’t whether the climate is changing. That is a settled matter: The climate has always changed and always will. […] Nor is the crucial question whether humans are influencing the climate. That is no hoax: There is little doubt in the scientific community that continually growing amounts of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, due largely to carbon-dioxide emissions from the conventional use of fossil fuels, are influencing the climate. There is also little doubt that the carbon dioxide will persist in the atmosphere for several centuries. The impact today of human activity appears to be comparable to the intrinsic, natural variability of the climate system itself.

“Rather, the crucial, unsettled scientific question for policy is, ‘How will the climate change over the next century under both natural and human influences?’”

Koonin's connections to big oil are clear. And he downplays the influence of humans and the impacts.

The opinion of one scientist does not negate the work and conclusions of thousands of other actual climate scientists. You can read about Koonin below.

https://www.desmog.com/steve-koonin/ https://www.desmog.com/steve-koonin/

Steven (Steve) E. Koonin is a university professor and founding director of NYU’s Center for Urban Science and Progress. From 2009 to 2011, Koonin was Under Secretary for Science at the U.S. Department of Energy under President Barack Obama. [2]

Before working in government, Koonin spent five years (2004 to 2009) as Chief Scientist for oil giant BP plc where he helped to establish its Energy Biosciences Institute. From 1975 to 2006, he was a professor of theoretical physics at California Institute of Technology (Caltech) and served as provost from 1995 to 2004. [2], [3], [4]

According to a response at Climate Science and Policy Watch, “Koonin mis-states a number of scientific details, and ultimately lures readers toward the conclusion that climate change isn’t an urgent problem.” [10]

The response included statements from scientists Michael Mann, Michael MacCracken, and Howard Frumkin. Michael Mann, Distinguished Professor of Meteorology and Director of the Earth System Science Center at Penn State, wrote:

“Koonin mentions that this climate is always changing. This is a standard line in the WSJ because it sounds reasonable at first blush, but of course it conveys a deep falsehood. The fact is that the actual peer-reviewed scientific research shows that (a) the rate of warming over the past century is unprecedented as far back as the 20,000 years paleoclimate scientists are able to extend the record and (b) that warming can ONLY be explained by human influences.

“Indeed, it is the RATE of warming that presents such risk to human civilization and our environment. There is no doubt that there were geological periods that were warmer than today due to long-term changes in greenhouse gas concentrations driven by natural factors like plate tectonics. But consider the early Cretaceous 100 million years ago when CO2 concentrations were even higher than today, and there were dinosaurs roaming the ice-free poles. Over the last 100 million years, nature slowly buried all of that additional CO2 beneath Earth’s surface in the form of fossil fuels. We are now unburying that carbon a *MILLION* times faster than it was buried, leading to unprecedented rates of increase in greenhouse concentrations and resulting climate changes. To claim that this is just part of a natural cycle is to be either deeply naive or disingenuous.”

Dr. Michael MacCracken, Chief Scientist for Climate Change Policy at the Climate Institute, wrote (emphasis in original): [10]

“Of the many points to be made, here are a few:

“Koonin’s analysis totally fails to consider the significant risk of very serious impacts on marine life of ocean acidification from the rising CO2 concentration. Impacts are already affecting those growing oysters and other shelled organisms in the Pacific Northwest, and coral atolls around the world are at risk over coming decades—and that is pure chemistry totally independent of climate models.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

We got about an inch out of this system, some of that came as snow.
Didn't really need it right now, but not going to turn it down either.
We got almost as much moisture in the past 24 hours than we have had in the entirety of 2021 up to Friday.
-4 forecast again tonight.
Neighbors seeded what appears to be barley back in mid April. It is now out of the ground, how much frost can that tolerate?
Maybe this moisture will finally bring some frost out, and melt the last of the winter snow.
Disc still turning up frozen chunks and snow in ground that I disturbed this winter doing landscaping.

And good idea using the thread title to preemptively call out the troll. Chuck himself would be proud, after all, he is a strong advocate for taking preemptive action against global warming, so doing the same against trolls just makes sense.

[chuckChuck]

So how is it a self declared libertarian isn't up to discussing important issues and would rather just call the participants a troll? Is nothing sacred?

Koonin "There is little doubt in the scientific community that continually growing amounts of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, due largely to carbon-dioxide emissions from the conventional use of fossil fuels, are influencing the climate. There is also little doubt that the carbon dioxide will persist in the atmosphere for several centuries."

Lets talk about the residency of CO2 A5! Koonin can straighten you out. Its a good thing Saskfarmer brought up Koonin because Koonin indirectly says that your idea that CO2 has a short life time and we are going to run out of it if we don't keep burning fossil fuels is pure fantasy on your part. LOL

[furrowtickler]

So how is it a self declared libertarian isn't up to discussing important issues and would rather just call the participants a troll? Is nothing sacred? LOL

When issues like climate change are so wildly overestimated to push an agenda it’s sometimes not worth the effort to discuss with the climate cult club .

Happy Mother’s day , was -2 here again this morning.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

So how is it a self declared libertarian isn't up to discussing important issues and would rather just call the participants a troll? Is nothing sacred?

Koonin "There is little doubt in the scientific community that continually growing amounts of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, due largely to carbon-dioxide emissions from the conventional use of fossil fuels, are influencing the climate. There is also little doubt that the carbon dioxide will persist in the atmosphere for several centuries."

Lets talk about the residency of CO2 A5! Koonin can straighten you out. LOL

Yes lets talk. How about we both read the book and come back to discuss it at a later date. If I remember right, the release date is right about now.
Remember that certainty that you keep harping about, and I keep belittling you about? Well that is where you and Koonin disagree. You are parroting a sense of certainty ( and therefore urgency) that the actual scientists and scientific papers, and scientific organizations clearly say does not exist. That is the central premise of his book.

We might both learn a lot from reading it.

[chuckChuck]

Naw, I don't read books, articles, scientific papers, and cut and paste. I am like SF, I rely on the coffee shop for ideas! Real farmers don't read books! They don't need too. They are knowledgeable on every subject, including human caused global climate change. Just look out the window. The earth is flat! LOL

[Partners]

Naw, I don't read books, articles, scientific papers, and cut and paste. I am like SF, I rely on the coffee shop for ideas! Real farmers don't read books! They don't need too. They are knowledgeable on every subject, including human caused global climate change. Just look out the window. The earth is flat! LOL

Minus 5 here again Chuck.
You told me a cold April was good.
What about a cold May???

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Naw, I don't read books, articles, scientific papers, and cut and paste. I am like SF, I rely on the coffee shop for ideas! Real farmers don't read books! They don't need too. They are knowledgeable on every subject, including human caused global climate change. Just look out the window. The earth is flat! LOL

Yes, that is a very astute observation. I've noticed that without reading or an education, farmers are also experts on Viruses, Vaccines, US politics, Container Ships and Canals, Pipelines, Electric Cars, Racism etc etc.
Really quite amazing how much knowledge and expertise can be gained simply by osmosis by farmers.

Personally, I will stick with reading books and papers, and talking with scientists and experts.

I'm a little busy right now, so how about we agree to come back in July after we have both had time to read the book, then we can have in informed intellectual debate about how we interpret it?