Questions to cattle guys on here....

[bucket]

But I will bet that if we abolished government support programs and subsidized crop insurance, there would be a resurrgence of mixed farms, and consolidation would slow or even reverse.

Many fence lines and sloughs are gone....and I don't think they are coming back...

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Many fence lines and sloughs are gone....and I don't think they are coming back...

They are not coming back so long as we can socialize the losses and privatize the profits with subsidized crop insurance.

[Sheepwheat]

They are not coming back so long as we can socialize the losses and privatize the profits with subsidized crop insurance.

I don’t think they are coming back for different reasons. Like the fact animals create a full time job. That you can’t get away from them for long. Everyone here used to have cows and lots of them. But when the next generation came up, the younguns said, nope, no animals, bulldozers and sc****rs and winter holidays instead. In some ways I don’t blame them, but it completely changed the dynamic.

I dunno what the answer is to refill the land with young and new farmers. I do know it involves animal agriculture, and different ways of looking at things, like my garlic farmers neighbor who makes a living on ten or twelve acres. There are a lot of young non farmers wishing they could enter the industry, but they struggle to find land. And get tricked into thinking the cookie cutter agriculture we have today, is the absolute ONLY way to farm in western Canada.

It’s a shame.

[jazz]

I am sure the feds are concocting a scheme to provide aid to cattle guys in exchange for herd reduction. They are just chomping at the bit to get real meat out of our diet.

Thats why we should be wary of any aid package. Find a way to muddle through if you can but if we are not careful the cattle biz will become like fisheries and recently oil. A managed industry or hemmed in with regulation.

If aid comes with strings we should reject it. I would rather farm groups reach out to grain producers and see if some feed can be donated, sort of like that hay west thing 20 yrs ago, but kept locally this time with out the easts involvement.

[dmlfarmer]

This was posted on Twitter yesterday. Can anyone confirm?

"Are you in the market for feed? Robert Andjelic (200,000 ac. in Saskatchewan) doesn’t care. Livestock owners throughout North America are hurting for some sort of feed, but he won’t allow his renters to drop straw (irrigated). #hay #straw #cattle #horses #sheep #goats"

[GDR]

But I will bet that if we abolished government support programs and subsidized crop insurance, there would be a resurrgence of mixed farms, and consolidation would slow or even reverse.

I'm sure that would be unpopular and detrimental to lots of operations but I think it could long term help the industry. Kinda like ripping off a band aid.

[burnt]

I don’t think they are coming back for different reasons. Like the fact animals create a full time job. That you can’t get away from them for long. Everyone here used to have cows and lots of them. But when the next generation came up, the younguns said, nope, no animals, bulldozers and sc****rs and winter holidays instead. In some ways I don’t blame them, but it completely changed the dynamic.

I dunno what the answer is to refill the land with young and new farmers. I do know it involves animal agriculture, and different ways of looking at things, like my garlic farmers neighbor who makes a living on ten or twelve acres. There are a lot of young non farmers wishing they could enter the industry, but they struggle to find land. And get tricked into thinking the cookie cutter agriculture we have today, is the absolute ONLY way to farm in western Canada.

It’s a shame.

Yup. Same here.

The consolidation in farming is just scary. Young guys who would love to farm are blocked out by those who already have thousands of acres under their control - owned or rented.

A couple of years ago, a delegation from an Orthodox Mennonite community presented a delegation to our local council, asking them to consider breaking 100 acres farms (which recently sell for around 1.5 million and up) into 25 or 50 acres parcels.

They said that their young people cannot afford the ticket for the whole farm, and that they are well able to make a living on a much smaller parcel.

Their market gardens are a work of beauty and wonder - a large percentage of the surrounding area beat a path to their gates to buy local, fresh produce.

The mayor at the time was a cash cropper who occupied a very significant amount of the space at the head of the immense council table.

Then, with a superior attitude that may have outmatched his impressive girth, he proceeded to put his astounding capacity for sheer dumbassery on full display by responding - 'I thought farms were getting bigger, not smaller".

[Blaithin]

There's so many possibilities for getting use out of currently unused land but sometimes it's hard to even think of it. It's not part of common thoughts.

Grain farmers don't have to anchor themselves down with livestock. I don't blame them for that, there's a reason I'd never want to be a dairy farmer and I hesitate to commit to high density rotational grazing. I like being able to have regular days that I don't really have to go deal with the cows. But there's enough guys with livestock that it's not obscene to think partnerships between (friendly) neighbours can form.

Does an arable farm want to start including a hay/grass stand in their crop rotation but doesn't want to deal with haying, or maybe wants to leave the nutrients on the field instead of carting it off in bales. Have a fence, rent it out for grazing for the 3 - 5 years or however long you want it as hay. It's still making you income and really not costing you much. Similar if you want to play with cover crops to try and boost soil nutrients. Why worry about how to harvest the crop, run the animals to it and let them do the job. Next spring it's back for your crops, minimal equipment touching it the year before.

Have a rough year like this year where a crop isn't worth combining and hardly worth baling or silaging? If it's fenced the neighbour can run livestock on it. Clean up the field and make some cash instead of just spending money trying to clean it up and beating on equipment.

Have lots of draws and sloughs and coulees that have great grass in them? If the field is fenced once the crop is off the neighbour can run livestock through it to clean up the fence lines, regrowth, low spots, etc.

BCRC has a little infographic that says for every day the grazing season is extended the cow calf sector can save almost 4 million dollars. Pretty much any cattleman you ever talk to will tell you that the longer they can keep the cattle out of the yard, the better. They aren't adverse to pasture changes.

The big obstacles are generally fencing cost and water but with the right partnership I know of ranchers and cattlemen that will happily foot some of this cost if it gets them reliable grazing to extend their season. With the inclusion of good hot wire set ups the fencing doesn't even always have to be fort knox level. After the initial investment this is an avenue of another revenue source for crop farms. Many are also willing to go in on cost of seed and inputs on top of paying for the grazing. Just because the crop is off the field doesn't mean it has to stop supplying a means for a profit.

From my perspective I really don't know why it wouldn't be seriously considered, especially in fields already fenced. Why pull out a good fence or let it fall into disrepair? Use it! It adds value to the field, don't just let it fall to bits. There's a quarter almost directly across the road from me with a good fence and dug out, that was broken up about 5-6 years ago. For some reason the owner is absolutely adamant that my cows can't go out on the main field after harvest and clean up the fence and draws. I'm assuming there's a personal reason but I really don't know. The cows can be in at the dugout so I'm maintaining that fence, but the rest of the quarter is slowly declining as staples come out and equipment clips posts. It's a story written across the countryside, dilapidated fences that could allow access to grazing after harvest, benefiting not just cattle producers but crop farmers.

I really think it's a lost opportunity and I hope I start to see more and more people start to discover it.

[Taiga]

What is the going rate for ‘custom grazing’? In terms of $/head/day or some other unit.

[Blaithin]

What is the going rate for ‘custom grazing’? In terms of $/head/day or some other unit.

Here I've seen people ask for $1/head or pair a day and I've seen people desperate for pasture offer $3/day.

First is low and rare, second is scary if that's what it goes to. Around here I'd say the average is most likely in the $1.50, closer to $2 range but it's usually old time agreements as well.

Cost as always depends on area as well as involvement. True custom grazing would be higher as that's typically somebody else managing and looking after the animals for the owner. Doing health checks, treating, fencing, moving, etc. Most farmers are going to want to do this for their own animals and are only paying for the grass so to speak. Few have expectations of the land owner even doing fence maintenance. Cost would also have to consider if any investment was put into seed/fence/water. If there's no water on the field and the farmer is hauling it and has their own portable set up, cost would be expected to be lower than for a field that has it's own water, for example.

[Blaithin]

Well apparently Alberta is a joke. Have to rely on second designation?