Tell me what has changed

[oneoff]

Lets ask oneoff a very simple question. is there anything about this pandemic, its handling, the health information dispensed, the guidelines set and enforced, the narrative from the media, the medical data etc that elicits any questions in your so called logical mind. Anything at all? One single thing that would point to a reason to be wary about what has been told to us and demand a just a little more clarification. Any little thing at all?

I will wait for you to process that one.

I ask that you also contemplate on exactly the same thoughts and also respond.


There are many things; but in no particular order; and with option to extend the list:

Through innovative hard work; along with government supports (Trump at the forefront and many countries prepaying for doses that could have turned out worthless failures) it has created goldmines for the successful candidates (eg. Phizer, Modera and potential companies in the near and distant future which may further expand this newer technology.)

Some of those vaccines have specifically performed beyond expectations. Grant them that...

What was know from even before the phase3 trials was that little to no protection coming in the first week or so following especially the first injection. A certain portion of vaccine takers may well be exposed to infection; become scared into thinking about their own health (and maybe the benefits of the full Covid protection from two doses (in common world case)); but the first dose of vaccines is of next to no use if you are already exposed or even become exposed days later. SO HERE"S MY ANSWER TO THE FIRST OF MY DEEP LAMENTS...AND I ANTICIPATE JAZZ IS NOT WASTING MY VALUABLE TIME AND WILL RECIPROCATEIN A TTRUTHFUL WAY

Here's my suggestion for a missed potential game changing improvement that wasn't vigorously pursued; and still isn't well enough clarified. Why isn't and wasn't much more effort put into vigorously finding out if compounds such as ivermectin (etc. etc with anti viral safe known properties) given the same critical scutiny to determine its short term potential to bridge protection over until the vaccines could provide much longer term immunity. ie. the****udics


I can think of a dozen other additional comments to answer the jazz question. Including how those supporting governments could have negotiated patent foregiveness to allow the supply of vaccine to all manufacturers for an adequate period of time to potentially get the pandemic under control..or how protective equipment (masks; gowns and shields etc. should have been promoted vigorously once the critical dearth ofsupply for front line workers was assured. And how T***p could have had all the glory for his project; if only he could have brought himself to support it when he realized the vaccine couldn't get distributed before the Nov 4 election.

And on and on BUT BUT
Now its your turn to do what you asked of me. What one little thing do you regret that anti-vaxers (defined as those who would do anything including taking a bullet); before they would ever ever participate in a Pandemic vaccination program.

[jazz]

And on and on BUT BUT
Now its your turn to do what you asked of me. What one little thing do you regret that anti-vaxers (defined as those who would do anything including taking a bullet); before they would ever ever participate in a Pandemic vaccination program.

I do not subscribe to any antivax theory. I dont beleive anyone this forum has said they have never taken a vaccine before and never will. There are several who are hesitant and understandably so. Some of those people have direct anecdotal evidence from aquaintenances of adverse effects. That doesnt mean they are unsafe, just that the safety profile is still being established and information still coming in. Some people are early adopters, some arent, some want to wait and see. I waited a full 2 months after my age call before I got my shot and good thing I did because the AZ and JNJ shots were pretty much discontinued during that time frame.

And now I am waiting on my 2nd dose, maybe until FDA approval, maybe until I see if the delta scare takes hold. Dont know yet. I just know the more I wait, the more information there is to make decisions and thats true about everything. rarely will I ever rush out and do something because somebody told me to, especially our govt with an idiot leading it.

Your response was more detailed than I expected. Lets keep this more simple. Is a organization who told you masks dont work, travel bans are racist, BLM rallys dont spread, have sex through a hole in the wall and china has handled covid better than anyone worthy of your instant loyalty?

[oneoff]

I do not subscribe to any antivax theory. I dont beleive anyone this forum has said they have never taken a vaccine before and never will. There are several who are hesitant and understandably so. Some of those people have direct anecdotal evidence from aquaintenances of adverse effects. That doesnt mean they are unsafe, just that the safety profile is still being established and information still coming in. Some people are early adopters, some arent, some want to wait and see. I waited a full 2 months after my age call before I got my shot and good thing I did because the AZ and JNJ shots were pretty much discontinued during that time frame.

And now I am waiting on my 2nd dose, maybe until FDA approval, maybe until I see if the delta scare takes hold. Dont know yet. I just know the more I wait, the more information there is to make decisions and thats true about everything. rarely will I ever rush out and do something because somebody told me to, especially our govt with an idiot leading it.

Your response was more detailed than I expected. Lets keep this more simple. Is a organization who told you masks dont work, travel bans are racist, BLM rallys dont spread, have sex through a hole in the wall and china has handled covid better than anyone worthy of your instant loyalty?

Perhaps you and others could offer your ideas on the merits of giving the****utics a good look at off label antiviral activity as a bridge to known exposures in advance of vaccinations being able to provide their known Covid antibody responses. Even admit what the documented safety hazards are... and reject as BS some annecdotal evidence of 15 deaths; within a week; and all in a local situation.
The risks are in order of 1 in 100,000 (or less). You know how many vaccinations 15 actual deaths in a week would translate into the number of vaccinations requreed.

You inability to call these falsehoods is appalling. Your delayed hesitancy is also accompanied by claims of you did get these vaccines; just like a former president secretly took his; while all the while discouraging millions of others to be suspicious.

Given your schedule; the 600,000 plus lost souls in the USA sure wasn't minimized by any of the anti vaxers.
And whether you people know it; or ever will know it; you are responsible for delaying herd immunity that could have been here if everyone had cooperated. Many of you apparently have no respect or faith in people who have devoted themselves to health sciences. Like Dr Fauci said "You don't know what you are talking about" Credible sources required as a starting point.

Avoid these self proclaimed anti vaccination activists like the plague...and perhaps at every opportunity expose their logic to those who will listen.


Anyone heard of an admin response to a call for looking at the 15 death/one week local Covid coverup. It is the weekend; so perhaps early Monday morning...................

[burnt]

This AOI segment is recently proven even more solidly accurate these 4 years after its debut. What a find, this channel was!

The Virginia Woolf quote at 7:40 is astoundingly applicable in today's sociopolitical environment.

One thing that hasn't changed is the "stultifying effect" of conformity. The creator of the video tells us why.

Again, the "fear" factor plays into the inner, unspoken compulsion to conform.

And although the fear is usually not clearly verbalized, it becomes apparent when we witness good men and women stampede into conformity to (hopefully) escape the risk of being singed out for the mockery and flagellation meted out by the conformist society.

"For nonconformity the world whips you with its displeasure" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Such a response, however, soon leads to greater decay - when a man or woman begins to sacrifice one dear principle, which one remains safe from cancellation after that?

They begin to rot from within.

At some conscious or subconscious level they recognize this, and when they see a nonconformist stand out in wholesome strength, it drives them mad.

[burnt]

Who would endorse an abusive relationship?

The responses - seem to indicate that those who oppose this evil regime outnumber the supporters by about 100:1. Or maybe 1000:1?

Yet the majority people capitulate to what they recognize as an evil movement?

"The truth will set you free". Nothing else.

[dmlfarmer]

I have tried to abstain from commenting on the Covid misinformation campaign happening on this forum because any post by either side simply enforces and contributes to further misinformation. However, I do want to share the lead story in today's New York Times about the number one source of Covid misinformation in the world. It discusses Dr Mercola (a person who has been quoted a number of times on this forum by some) and the misinformation he spreads and why. (Surprise, surprise, he is making millions off his facebook posts of misinformation, and the selling of "natural" cures for Covid. Both sides of this debate should read this article before posting anything else about Covid) A good read. It is entitled The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation Online

Sorry I cannot hotlink this article but just search the web for the above title or you can copy and paste the following link: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/24/technology/joseph-mercola-coronavirus-misinformation-online.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210725&ins tance_id=36213&nl=the-morning&regi_id=50975083&segment_id=64389&te=1&use r_id=7a12d123dfb1d02ee141dbfea005288b

[burnt]

I have tried to abstain from commenting on the Covid misinformation campaign happening on this forum because any post by either side simply enforces and contributes to further misinformation. However, I do want to share the lead story in today's New York Times about the number one source of Covid misinformation in the world. It discusses Dr Mercola (a person who has been quoted a number of times on this forum by some) and the misinformation he spreads and why. (Surprise, surprise, he is making millions off his facebook posts of misinformation, and the selling of "natural" cures for Covid. Both sides of this debate should read this article before posting anything else about Covid) A good read. It is entitled The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation Online

Sorry I cannot hotlink this article but just search the web for the above title or you can copy and paste the following link: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/24/technology/joseph-mercola-coronavirus-misinformation-online.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210725&ins tance_id=36213&nl=the-morning&regi_id=50975083&segment_id=64389&te=1&use r_id=7a12d123dfb1d02ee141dbfea005288b

So you, too, are the arbiter of "misinformation"?

Good thing you constantly display a complete absence of bias!

Otherwise, you could be mistaken for just another conspiracy theorist, wouldn't you.

"In his influential 1928 book “Propaganda,” Bernays highlights the need to utilize people’s emotions to steer public opinion. He states:

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in the democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of the country.” "

Things that make you go hmmm.

[chuckChuck]

So when did giving vaccines to prevent infectious disease to lower the hospitalization and death rate and the rigorous science that supports vaccines for that purpose, become propaganda? LOL

We have been using vaccines around the world for many many decades for just that purpose.

Almost everyone on this site will have been vaccinated for something.

Good heathcare policy and programs focus on prevention, which is what vaccines are for.

If this is the hill you want to die on, you may literally get your chance if you remain unvaccinated in the next months and years. The statistics don't lie.

Covid and covid variants are going to be around at some level for a long time at the rate the world is vaccinating.

Some people will only change their minds when they or some one else they are close to succumbs to a disease. Some are still in denial as they take their last breaths in a hospital that covid is real.

There is nothing that can be done to convince the very small number of people who are that disconnected from reality to change their minds.

[sumdumguy]

Basic human rights to life, liberty and freedom of expression - and pursuit of happiness. I am free to decide what goes into my body.

[jazz]

Was hoping to have a rational discussion with oneoff but he is way down in the weeds and his TDS is flaring up. Besides, I have people to kill with my semi vaccinated status.

Here is another tidbit of the staggering misinformation from the health experts. If you dont want to watch the video I will summarize. 2 Most vaccinated countries, UK and Israel have diverging protections from vaccines.

Whats the difference, well Israel put shots 3 weeks apart, UK put them 3 months apart. Remember when they were tell us the better protection was longer duration between shots. Well so much for that.

He predicts a large portion of the close dose vaccinated will start getting covid again and boosters will be needed rapidly.

[chuckChuck]

Being vaccinated will actually provide more freedom in the current covid pandemic than remaining unvaccinated.

More travel options. Easier access to events. Some freedom from worry about covid. Less chance you will be sick and unable to work for a few days or longer. The advantages and small amount of risk outweigh the the disadvantages by a huge margin.

Just ask anyone unvaccinated who ended up in hospital with covid how much freedom they enjoyed during their hospital stay. Most will say I should have gotten the vaccine.

[chuckChuck]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

Some can’t see the forest for the trees.

Don't be so hard on your self.

What ever your problem is, I am sure someone will help you if you just ask for help.