high input farmers

[AlbertaFarmer5]

And a big congratulations to Chuck for a very well written on topic relevant post.
Especially the comment about the juvenile advertising by input companies. I don't understand if they are that out of touch with their target audience that they think these are effective, or if I am that out of touch with my fellow juvenile farmers and these tactics really are effective? They turn me off completely.

You earned some well deserved likes on that post.

[sawfly1]

I do not think fertilizer is ever a bad
Investment. NPKS. it will get used sometime.
Rented land might be a slightly different story for large apps. Of phosphorus.
Your fixed costs do not care if it rains or not.
The accountant still has to be paid, machinery insurance etc. If it does rain , you probably should be in a position to capitalize on it ,. Clean and fertile. Skip one of those 2
And your waisting everything. On poor land , do the minimum on the total crap and pour it to the good spots.
Sand dunes and saline you can improve but , rarely ever pay back no matter how hard you try.
What is sadly needed is a cheaper generic tolerant Canola seed to be grown on the poorest soils.
To lower the total $ at risk

[the big wheel]

Soil tests are only as accurate as the persons
Judgement that’s taking the samples especially
If you have a mixed bag of soil types and topography.
I just use them as a guide roughly. And actually
Went out with the person on a few fields to see
Where they were taking the samples. I ve had some
Results in the past that I knew couldn’t
Possibly represent the field.

I guess I ll do what I always do on these
Years say all winter that I ll cut back
And then when spring comes will say have to
Get a big yield since prices are shitty or
Have to get a big yield prices are good. Lol.

[Sodbuster]

In our area I think that the higher fertility rates allowed the crops to dig a little deeper to find moisture and will yield more in the end. What ever doesn’t get used will mostly be available for next year unless we get real wet but not much chances of that. As far as snake oil products and fungicide I don’t think they would’ve paid for themselves. We did put Prosaro on 80% of our wheat, will monitor it at harvest.

As for soil testing I rarely do it, mostly if we have a decent crop I will put back a full package of groceries. This fall I will soil test a lot of my fields to see what’s left and go from there.

[TOM4CWB]

In our area I think that the higher fertility rates allowed the crops to dig a little deeper to find moisture and will yield more in the end. What ever doesn’t get used will mostly be available for next year unless we get real wet but not much chances of that. As far as snake oil products and fungicide I don’t think they would’ve paid for themselves. We did put Prosaro on 80% of our wheat, will monitor it at harvest.

As for soil testing I rarely do it, mostly if we have a decent crop I will put back a full package of groceries. This fall I will soil test a lot of my fields to see what’s left and go from there.

I agree, with a proviso;

We have been using some 'Power Rich' with very good results, as well as direct high pressure injection of NH3 liquid into the deep band.

How available applied nutrients are to the crop we plant, the placement, compaction, and keeping as much trash on top of the soil surface as possible, to give a mulch barrier to save moisture... all are important on low moisture years.

As well our conservapac leaving good trenches that funnel showers into the seedrow, can mean 3/10" does as much good as 1/2" of rain; in a year of showers for scarce moisture water source... this has an impact on yield, that may not be considered. As well wider seed row spacing is better on dry years; in many cases just enough extra moisture to make a remarkable difference in plant growth.

On 'wet' years, narrow seed rows and more plant distribution can create weed competition that is positive...

But the row precision crop planters seeding 2lb/ac canola... ending up with better yields than more conventional seed placement and spacing... is a telling story that is obviously one to watch, both on nutrient utilization especially of P and K, as well as N on dry years especially. Feed your seeds, not your weeds!!! When 50% of conventional P turns to phosphate rock on the year of application... perhaps Tag Team inoculation and more available sources of nutrients are prudent, especially if they are precision placed near enough to the root zone of the crop we need to feed, yet far enough away to prevent seed burn at germination!

Cheers!
P.S. I love lightning storms with a nice 1/4" shower, looks like at least an estimated 50% of the N our wheat and Canola use, comes from these storms and is funneled into the crops root zone, otherwise it would be impossible to harvest the crops that result from the nutrients we apply each year... and do not show up on soil tests! ALso Peas in rotation provide amazing soil conditioning properties for the crops grown after... just like Alfalfa... which does amazing things to soil even 10 years after it was in rotation!

[Hamloc]

I was going to start a thread on this very topic. I grew Sirish, synergy and a variety in between height wise last year. Synergy was flat from corner to corner, but survived under water and thrived in saturated soil, Sirish stood up really well, but was a disaster anywhere there was water stress.
This year I decided I would rather have flat crop then poor crop, so I grew all synergy.
Every once in a while I accidentally do something right this was definitely one of those times. The synergy barley looks very good.
In the early 2000s we started growing Thompson semi dwarf barley because it didn't Lodge very easily. It really really doesn't like hot and dry. There were some decent barley crops in the area of tall varieties, the Thompson headed out in June at a foot high and only yielded 50 bushels in 2002 and 2003 without any rain. After a few years of no rain gave up went back to tell varieties and it rained ever since.
I grow a really short CPS variety (actually CNHR now) and I think I am regretting that this year.

I second the motion that Invigor handles stress of any kind better than any of the RR varieties. I was beginning to think they had closed the gap, but this year the difference is very evident. Glad to have mostly invigor (and P501L) varieties this year.
I see the same issue as short cereals in the supposedly short season canolas on a dry year as well.

I used to grow Thompson as well, only barley I could find that would stand on land that my pig manure was applied on( early 2000’s). I found a heavier penalty with it in dry years. Last year my Synergy has mixed results, in the wet fields it yielded lower and in the dryer field yielded higher but lodged heavily. It was actually a fluke that I ended up growing synergy, tested it and a bin bottom of Thompson I had left and the Synergy had much better germ.

Big wheel I do have one field with 11 acres of Sirish seeded right beside 20 acres of Austenson, both from certified seed, will be interesting to see the result.

As far as canola, so far my Pioneer P506 looks the best, my L340PC and L255PC don’t have as long of pods.

[Guest]

I used to grow Thompson as well, only barley I could find that would stand on land that my pig manure was applied on( early 2000’s). I found a heavier penalty with it in dry years. Last year my Synergy has mixed results, in the wet fields it yielded lower and in the dryer field yielded higher but lodged heavily. It was actually a fluke that I ended up growing synergy, tested it and a bin bottom of Thompson I had left and the Synergy had much better germ.

Big wheel I do have one field with 11 acres of Sirish seeded right beside 20 acres of Austenson, both from certified seed, will be interesting to see the result.

As far as canola, so far my Pioneer P506 looks the best, my L340PC and L255PC don’t have as long of pods.

exact same here
have 340, 255 & 506 on the same half

[Guest]

Farmers have become a huge profit opportunity for the input suppliers.

Their often juvenile advertising and marketing programs have been effective. That and providing non independent agronomy and advice, leads to increased and unnecessary sales.

There are a lot of nuances to the art and science of farming.

Finding that sweet spot of keeping input costs reasonable, but producing a reasonable return is a big challenge.

And then along comes the drought and heat of 2021 to give every farmer a big wakeup kick in the ass.

But unless you are still wet behind the ears and forgot to pay attention to your parents experience and advice, 2021 should be not a big surprise. Even if it is a painfull experience for everyone.

yes especially the fungicide commercial , coulda, woulda, shoulda , belongs in a kindergarten class
if they think thats what we base our fungi decisions on ?

[WiltonRanch]

Farmers have become a huge profit opportunity for the input suppliers.

Their often juvenile advertising and marketing programs have been effective. That and providing non independent agronomy and advice, leads to increased and unnecessary sales.

There are a lot of nuances to the art and science of farming.

Finding that sweet spot of keeping input costs reasonable, but producing a reasonable return is a big challenge.

And then along comes the drought and heat of 2021 to give every farmer a big wakeup kick in the ass.

But unless you are still wet behind the ears and forgot to pay attention to your parents experience and advice, 2021 should be not a big surprise. Even if it is a painfull experience for everyone.

Great post. Input suppliers advertising is low brow as much as their silly rebate programs. Can remember when FNA was getting glyphosate in for $4 a litre and Monsanto was advertising $2.99 an acre for theirs, a half litre. I’d hope most farmers are bright enough to figure it out.

[shtferbrains]

A large segment of society is conviced a higher price means higher quality. Highest priced Trasosb still considered the best but can never be identified in blind side by side trials.
Advertizing pounds that into us.
Good example I have watched is Costco hearing aids.
Watched a very frugal lady take top of the line back to Costco because they made her dizzy after 2 hrs trial and then go buy from one of those traveling clincs for at least 2x price because her brother had bought there and they were the "best". Sat in a drawer for years never used.
Advertizing and face to face with with well dressed young buck with the most expensive sunglasses can get not only $2 acre more that ends up as 10k plus for the same results.

[WiltonRanch]

Kinda like Farmers Edge et al. Great if you think there’s an enough advantage to justify the cost. Like snake oil, grain magnets, tractor exhaust fertilizer, input capitol etc they are bottom feeders sucking up the scraps. Last ones you should be giving money to when times are tough. It’s been a decent run the last 15 years compared to the 15 before. Enough time for the hammer looking for a nail types to dream up this stuff. If crop yields don’t recover or and prices drop for a sustained period, these parasites will be gone as the host has died or took some ivomec.

[bigzee]

Probably the right thing to do is not really cut back next year on fertility. It’s only 1 dry year. Right?

Book fert early, put lots down, big prices next yr, don’t miss out. Big fall rains and harsh winter coming.

Book it!!!
Book something anyway!!!!

[furrowtickler]

We will keep doing what we do regardless of the big push from retailers . Go with the basics and add if necessary during the growing season once we know what we got coming and best guess on weather from mid June on .
This year was one of those years , was an easy decision by mid to late June .... park the sprayer and watch for bugs .
Each to their own , but some retailers , ag advisers really had guys go full throttle before and at seeding . Those bills are going to hurt now .
Optimal conditions only happen 1 or 2 years out of 10 in our area so we just do our own thing .

[shtferbrains]

Book fert early, put lots down, big prices next yr, don’t miss out. Big fall rains and harsh winter coming.

Book it!!!
Book something anyway!!!!

Book that Liberty canola as it is The One for next year.
Bet it has a short story at the retailers already.
Can't go wrong!

[Old Cowzilla]

Book fert early, put lots down, big prices next yr, don’t miss out. Big fall rains and harsh winter coming.

Book it!!!
Book something anyway!!!!

Maybe BOOK a holiday and think about it first !