Is history repeating

[burnt]

London Free Press
@LFPress
Do you support having a #COVID19 vaccine passport in Canada?
Yes
22.3%
No
77.7%
9,060 votes·Final results
6:56 AM · Aug 11, 2021·Twitter Web App

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Dml, that was quite the attack on me in response to my post.
And I thought we were on the same side of this issue. Apparently it is not permitted to point out the fallibility of authority.
Because when I hear ridiculous stories such as no one has ever died from the vaccine (which was being reported in the media) it reminds me of hearing election results from Tajikistan where no one ever voted for anyone except for the supreme leader. As a rational, thinking person, I would rather hear actual verifiable statistics.
As a livestock producer I am well aware of the risks inherent in any vaccine or medical procedure no matter how well tested how proven safe
And of course we still use the vaccines knowing that the reward outweighs the risk.
So you can quit pretending that anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly embrace you're blind trust in authority has to be an uninformed, low educated anti-vaxxer.
Perhaps if the powers that be didn't treat people like that as well that would be better uptake.

[dmlfarmer]

Dml, that was quite the attack on me in response to my post.
And I thought we were on the same side of this issue. Apparently it is not permitted to point out the fallibility of authority.
Because when I hear ridiculous stories such as no one has ever died from the vaccine (which was being reported in the media) it reminds me of hearing election results from Tajikistan where no one ever voted for anyone except for the supreme leader. As a rational, thinking person, I would rather hear actual verifiable statistics.
As a livestock producer I am well aware of the risks inherent in any vaccine or medical procedure no matter how well tested how proven safe
And of course we still use the vaccines knowing that the reward outweighs the risk.
So you can quit pretending that anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly embrace you're blind trust in authority has to be an uninformed, low educated anti-vaxxer.
Perhaps if the powers that be didn't treat people like that as well that would be better uptake.

Sorry if you read that as an attack on you. It was not intended to be that in any way. I was just adding to your list of things that were considered safe at one time, but now their are questions about their safety just as you added things to another poster's list.

Nor have I ever claimed that a vaccine is 100% safe. I even said in a post in response to Burnt that deaths are possible. AS you note, every thing has risks, and you have to weigh those risks and determine if the risks are worth the reward. Science is never final, better science will always happen. But the science we have today is all we have and we simply cannot wait forever incase science changes or we would still be living in caves and drawing on the walls.

My condending attitude that you seen as addressed at you was entended for those posters who inflate the risks exponentially but have no verifable data to back up their claims. For those who copy and paste misinformation about vaccines that they found on the internet. For those who make claims like Covid is no more dangerous or deadly than the flu. I too want real, verifiable data in making decisions, not conspiracy theories found on the internet.

I consider you a smart person and while we disagree on some issues there are likely more than we agree on. I think we could have a real debate on issues unlike a good number of posters on this forum.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

. Science is never final, better science will always happen.

Can you possibly do us all a huge favor and explain that concept to Chuck.

[shtferbrains]

Actualy explain that to the whole world.

[burnt]

Perhaps the comparison to the polio vaccine was a bit misdirected, dml, in several ways.

Does anyone know of leakage from the polio vaccine? (which, btw, is a classical vaccine)

Have the current jabs been oversold? Most of them are not classical, at least in part in that they have only been give emergency approval, and that none of them were time-tested as all classical vaccines have been.

Now the failures are becoming increasingly well-documented, if the Mayo Clinic research counts for anything.

The Mayo Clinic has released a study which show that shows a 58% failure in efficacy of the Pfizer jab for the Delta variant.

Is the jab resistance being proven to be justified?

There is increasing opinion coming from medical experts that says the Corona virus, which is believed to have originated from a Level 4 lab in Wuhan, China, is here to stay.

This seems to indicate that we are going to have to learn to live with it. What will the general public do when they realize that getting the latest jab will be an incessant requirement?

And if they refuse to roll up for the latest cocktail, that their expired vaxxport will not allow them entry to their favorite hangout? Their community event? Their job?

Keep your immune system healthy, take care to the extent that you need to, enjoy life and keep the ivermectin handy.

And all that before we mention the fact that the polio vaccine has never been known to precipitate a variant...

[dmlfarmer]

Perhaps the comparison to the polio vaccine was a bit misdirected, dml, in several ways.

Does anyone know of leakage from the polio vaccine? (which, btw, is a classical vaccine)

Have the current jabs been oversold? Most of them are not classical, at least in part in that they have only been give emergency approval, and that none of them were time-tested as all classical vaccines have been.

Now the failures are becoming increasingly well-documented, if the Mayo Clinic research counts for anything.

The Mayo Clinic has released a study which show that shows a 58% failure in efficacy of the Pfizer jab for the Delta variant.

Is the jab resistance being proven to be justified?

There is increasing opinion coming from medical experts that says the Corona virus, which is believed to have originated from a Level 4 lab in Wuhan, China, is here to stay.

This seems to indicate that we are going to have to learn to live with it. What will the general public do when they realize that getting the latest jab will be an incessant requirement?

And if they refuse to roll up for the latest cocktail, that their expired vaxxport will not allow them entry to their favorite hangout? Their community event? Their job?

Keep your immune system healthy, take care to the extent that you need to, enjoy life and keep the ivermectin handy.

And all that before we mention the fact that the polio vaccine has never been known to precipitate a variant...

there is so much misinformation here that I was not even going to bother to respond, however since gullible are liking the post, I feel compelled to show how shoddy a job of research and questioning Burnt is doing.
1. I NEVER mentioned POLIO in this thread, the thread was about looking at the response of people in 1885 to SMALLPOX vaccinations and was never intended to compare smallpox and covid, just the reactions of people to vaccinations of two different diseases. But Burnt decided to switch diseases and claim that is what I was comparing.
2. He makes a big deal about no POLIO variants therefore implying something nefarious about Covid. Polio, Smallpox, and Covid are three completely different types of virus as to claim that since mutations don't occur naturally with polio therefore we should question Covid variants is ridiculous. That is like claiming since there is no natural nitrogren fixation on cereals, legumes should not have the ability to do it. There are classification systems for virus just as there are for plants and animals and smallpox, polio, and covid are in 3 completely different families. (or kingdoms in the Baltimore classification system) If you want to look at risk of variants, at least look at virus from closely related classifications like influenza. Influenza itself is divided into 4 main classifications A,B,C, and D. There is a further division of 8 types (for example H1) and another division of 17 types (for example N1) and variants appear as there are recombination of these types. 130+ variants of influenza have already been identified in nature and 60+ of those in humans. The seasonal flu shot is a combination of 2 A types and 1 B type selected on t he basis of expected types to be present in the coming flu season. It may or may not be effective if the dominant flu is of a different type than what the vaccine will protect against.
3. Oh, and his favorite go to is the lab escape card. Lab escapes happen and are some are well documented, and not just in China, and it does not mean the disease was man made. Smallpox escaped from labs in England 3 times in the 60's and 70s. The last time in 1978 it was from a Birmingham lab and resulted in the death of Janet Parker, a photographer with an office in the same building as the lab. And her death was a year after the last death in the world of someone catching smallpox in the wild.
In 2016 at a university in the US 6 vials of mislabled viable smallpox were found in a university cold storage area with no biosecurity. Do a google search of confirmed virus escapes and you will find lists of incidents Lab accidents and escapes will be with us as long as humans work in labs because humans are fallible.
4. And he makes a big deal about "classical" vaccines. Well there is also classical horsepower. And maybe Burnt should give up those non classical tractors and go back to classical horsepower.
5. Of course we are going to have to live with this disease. However, as people gain antibodies through infection or vaccinations the disease will not be as serious just as the swine flu in the 70s and H1N1 in the 90's are not longer the concern that they were when first identified. And neither of these were as deadly as Covid.
6. Finally, the just released Mayo study which has not been released publically or peer reviewed has other information in it that other news agencies have reported on besides the one tidbit that Burnt uses to make his case. I wonder why Burnt does not mention that the authors of that study also state that unvaccinated people are 25 times more likely to catch the disease than those vaccinated. I wonder why he does not mention that they also wrote that if there is a break through of Covid in a phizer vaccinated person the disease is much less severe and a much lower risk of hospitalizion? Oh i know, he only posts what fits his bias and hopes no one questions.

[chuckChuck]

Some backtracking on covid in Alberta?

Oh Oh! Kenney's covid palybook is being influenced by the dippers? Is this a sign of things to come?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/alberta/article-alberta-ndp-says-province-will-delay-plans-to-end-covid-19-measures/

Alberta NDP says it has persuaded province to delay plans to end COVID-19 measures

The Alberta NDP is claiming victory in its push to get the province to delay parts of its controversial plan to end routine COVID-19 testing, contact tracing and mandatory isolation this month.

The United Conservative Party government held an emergency COVID-19 cabinet meeting on Thursday to discuss next steps in the province’s strategy, a government source said. The Globe and Mail is not identifying the person because they are not authorized to speak publicly on the matter.

The provincial NDP held a news conference late in the day, citing its own sources as saying the government has decided to delay the plans to end routine COVID-19 testing, contact tracing and mandatory isolation. Some of the controversial changes were set to take effect on Monday.

“The government will not be rolling back those provisions on Monday, as they had planned,” NDP health critic David Shepherd said late Thursday, acknowledging that he doesn’t know all the details.

After two weeks of strong public opposition, and as COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations in the province increase, modifications to Alberta’s COVID-19 plan will be officially laid out during a Friday news conference on back-to-school public health measures, the NDP said.

“This is a government that clearly actively has to be held to account, even to maintain the most basic public health measures in the midst of a global pandemic,” Mr. Shepherd said.

Alberta’s Chief Medical Officer of Health, Deena Hinshaw, announced last month that as of Aug. 16, the province would recommend, but no longer legally require, that people with COVID-19 isolate. She said given the relatively high level of vaccination in the province, it was time to treat COVID-19 as a long-term part of life, like other respiratory viruses. Health officials said resources were needed for other health demands, and hospitalization rates have decoupled from COVID-19 case counts.

Alberta's Chief Medical Officer of Health, Dr. Deena Hinshaw, at a news conference in Edmonton on March 20, 2020. Last week, Ms. Hinshaw apologized for causing 'confusion, fear or anger' after communicating the province's plan to eliminate remaining public health measures in the province.

Dr. Hinshaw also said the province would cut wide-scale testing by the end of the month – leaving it to hospitals and doctors’ offices – and contact tracers won’t notify people who may have been exposed to the virus, except in cases that involve high-risk settings such as long-term care facilities. She also said masks will no longer be universally required in schools when classes resume in September.

Premier Jason Kenney and Health Minister Tyler Shandro said the changes were based on science and data, and came from Dr. Hinshaw and her team of public servants rather than being a political decision.

But the changes have been decried as too much too soon by some public health experts and doctors, and were subject to near-daily protests.

The Calgary Chamber of Commerce expressed concern that the province’s reputation and consumer confidence could take a hit. Most schools resume in less than three weeks, and the Canadian Paediatric Society said Alberta’s approach is particularly dangerous for children under 12, who aren’t yet eligible to be vaccinated.

Earlier this month, the federal government took the rare step of wading into an area of provincial jurisdiction, with Federal Health Minister Patty Hajdu writing to Mr. Shandro to say Alberta should not declare victory over the virus too early.

Alberta reported 550 new cases of COVID-19 at the end of Wednesday, compared to 501 the day prior. The province also reported a slight increase in the number of people in hospital with the virus, at 146, with 36 of those in ICU.

“Of the 36 in ICU, 90.6 per cent are unvaccinated and 5.6 per cent partially vaccinated,” Dr. Hinshaw tweeted on Thursday.

“When one person gets vaccinated, everyone benefits. Protect yourself and those around you by booking your 1st and 2nd doses today.”

Most new COVID-19 cases in Canada are being driven by the more contagious Delta variant. As of Wednesday, 76.6 per cent of eligible Albertans aged 12 and up have had at least one dose, and 67.4 per cent are fully vaccinated with two doses.

[burnt]

1 for 6.

Not bad, dml, you're starting to come around.

As for your claim about misinfo, show where I made any claim that cannot be verified.

Do you understand what this paper is saying - leaky vaccines lead to variants -

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198

Perhaps if you had been aware of this "science" you could have saved a lot of uninformed words in your 2nd point. You can always retract it, I suppose, now that it's been dismissed...

As for previous leaks, your comparisons are - true to form - completely false dichotomies yet again. 1 person died, compared to millions from the Wuhan Flu?

Really.

Man, you're good!

Comparing classical vaccines to classical horsepower - sure, that's a perfectly analogous comparison, yet again. That's pretty embarrassing, even from you.

Tell us something, dml, what benefit is there in offering some partial protection from a disease that the jab may well have exacerbated? Isn't that a bit like an arsonist selling fire extinguishers?

But thanks for engaging, it helps expose the holes in your theories.

I wonder if the Liberals need another sophist for their PR team!

[sumdumguy]

Hey you all, Antarctica is melting, its future could be catastrophic. Probably melts a little every summer, freezes again starting September. What is its future anyway, anyone know?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Hey you all, Antarctica is melting, its future could be catastrophic. Probably melts a little every summer, freezes again starting September. What is its future anyway, anyone know?

Probably not, Antarctica is in the southern hemisphere, September is spring, not fall. And NASA indicates that Antarctica is gaining sea ice not losing throughout the extent of the satellite era.

[sumdumguy]

I was wondering if Chuck would catch that but he likely has me on his Ignore List. But then another article , “Antarctica is Melting and you Should be Terrified”. That’s why I lay awake worrying, “when will my bed turn into a raft?”