The end of the turd

[flea beetle]

And as for Harper, he spent his term as prime minister cutting foreign aid from the previous 2 liberal prime ministers. As the withdrawal from Afghanistan shows, you can not just pull out of a country once you are there. You have to wean them off slowly and responsibly.

[WiltonRanch]

At least Chrétien Martin et al. were/are capable businessmen, lawyers, and seasoned in realpolitik. The dumpster fire now does not have real world experience like that and is running more on ideology. Pragmatism is dead from the shoulders up here. Throw in the influence from the NDP in this past govt is akin to Broadbent holding Trudeau captive. Unless inroads are made in the 905 and 416, there will be another minority. A majority for the liberals looks unlikely so far but there is still time for the red machine to pull something out. Only thing which could really hurt the liberals is if another black swan pops up.

[dmlfarmer]

If you include the money sent to United Nations agencies as well as “helping other countries deal with climate change” trudeau’s expenditure on foreign aid is around $10 billion rather than the $6 billion you are referring to. That is closer to 6% of gni than the 3% you were touting.

Source Spencer Fernando article March 20th, 2017

So you feel you can call me out for not providing a 2020 chart with 2020 data included yet you base your claim on a 2017 opinion article with no details on where the figures came from? And if you are adding in UN contributions for Trudeau, do tell what was the amount Harper contributed through the UN if you are going to compare?

[furrowtickler]

At least Chrétien Martin et al. were/are capable businessmen, lawyers, and seasoned in realpolitik. The dumpster fire now does not have real world experience like that and is running more on ideology. Pragmatism is dead from the shoulders up here. Throw in the influence from the NDP in this past govt is akin to Broadbent holding Trudeau captive. Unless inroads are made in the 905 and 416, there will be another minority. A majority for the liberals looks unlikely so far but there is still time for the red machine to pull something out. Only thing which could really hurt the liberals is if another black swan pops up.

Absolutely agree

[rumrocks]

What category did his potential UN appointment campaign bribe money fall under, office supplies for foreign embassies perhaps.

[6V53]

When you present data and facts that back up your argument, you often get lame juvenile insults from the usual suspects.

When you post an article that is counter to their thinking, their favorite whine is, it's too long to read or don't you have a thought of your own?

When you ask for evidence and numbers to support their arguments you are unlikely to get nothing but personal attacks.

It's all hat and no cattle when it comes to discussing many issues.

Long on personal opinions and very short on credible evidence.

Look in the mirror.

[flea beetle]

So you feel you can call me out for not providing a 2020 chart with 2020 data included yet you base your claim on a 2017 opinion article with no details on where the figures came from? And if you are adding in UN contributions for Trudeau, do tell what was the amount Harper contributed through the UN if you are going to compare?

The 2017 article showed one year only and debased your claim that Trudeau only spends $6 billion/year on foreign aid. The point I originally set out to make is that Trudeau gives money away to other countries with nothing to show for it. Just because it doesn’t fall in the “foreign aid” category, doesn’t mean it isn’t going on! I didn’t say that he spent more or less on the cookie cutter definition of foreign aid. You did.

If you want to find out what Harper gave to the UN, I suggest you do some work and find it. Not try the lazy way and try get someone to do it for you.

[jazz]

Only thing which could really hurt the liberals is if another black swan pops up.

WR, I dont know about that. This election has a different feel to it. Many more pssed off Canadians in a foul mood, the MSM not entirely on Trudeaus side this time. Libs have dumped half a dozen boogeyman arguments out the door in the first week and none stuck. No platform to release. Only thing they have left is the debates and we know OTool should clean skippy there if he shows. Otherwise bring out the Obama endorsement again.

[dmlfarmer]

The 2017 article showed one year only and debased your claim that Trudeau only spends $6 billion/year on foreign aid. The point I originally set out to make is that Trudeau gives money away to other countries with nothing to show for it. Just because it doesn’t fall in the “foreign aid” category, doesn’t mean it isn’t going on! I didn’t say that he spent more or less on the cookie cutter definition of foreign aid. You did.

If you want to find out what Harper gave to the UN, I suggest you do some work and find it. Not try the lazy way and try get someone to do it for you.

You mean like the work you did when you told me in post 112 "Now get a chart that isn’t from 2019"

And no, a opinion article in a newspaper from 2017 did not debase my claim that Trudeau only spends 6 billion/year on foreign aid. Go back and read the thread and you will find I never mentioned any dollar amount anywhere. I only ever refuted your insinuation that the Liberals spend more on foreign aid than the Conservatives and I did so using charts and % of GNI which is the international standard for comparing aid. So your statement that I claimed I said "Trudeau only spends $6billion/year on foreign aid" is pure BS.

You have yet to provide any factual data supporting your claim about which party spends the more on foreign aid. Furthermore, you are now claiming that there is nothing to show for the aid money spent while Trudeau was in office. Tell me, do you know where all the foreign aid dollars went to make such a sweeping statement? Was there anything to show for the aid dollars spent by other governments before JT? Are you just opposed to JT foreign aid or all foreign aid by all previous governments?

If you want to argue that UN contributions also must be accounted for in aid calculations, you have to include UN aid contributions made by all other governments you are comparing and it is a very weak argument if you cannot share with the the party you are disagreeing with the information you are basing your argument on and that they should look it up themselves.

[furrowtickler]

LOL , “what about” syndrome

[flea beetle]

You mean like the work you did when you told me in post 112 "Now get a chart that isn’t from 2019"

And no, a opinion article in a newspaper from 2017 did not debase my claim that Trudeau only spends 6 billion/year on foreign aid. Go back and read the thread and you will find I never mentioned any dollar amount anywhere. I only ever refuted your insinuation that the Liberals spend more on foreign aid than the Conservatives and I did so using charts and % of GNI which is the international standard for comparing aid. So your statement that I claimed I said "Trudeau only spends $6billion/year on foreign aid" is pure BS.

You have yet to provide any factual data supporting your claim about which party spends the more on foreign aid. Furthermore, you are now claiming that there is nothing to show for the aid money spent while Trudeau was in office. Tell me, do you know where all the foreign aid dollars went to make such a sweeping statement? Was there anything to show for the aid dollars spent by other governments before JT? Are you just opposed to JT foreign aid or all foreign aid by all previous governments?

If you want to argue that UN contributions also must be accounted for in aid calculations, you have to include UN aid contributions made by all other governments you are comparing and it is a very weak argument if you cannot share with the the party you are disagreeing with the information you are basing your argument on and that they should look it up themselves.

All I said in my original post was that they give away more money than some other parties to other countries. I said nothing about foreign aid. You did.

The author of the 2017 article cited the CIJ news for his numbers. I’m not going to buy a subscription to their paper in order to prove you wrong. But you are welcome to if you want.

Once again, my argument was that they give away more money to other countries. Had nothing to do with one single department. You posted the chart of only foreign aid. And I posted about the money given to the UN and also the money given to other countries to “fight climate change”. So if you want to refute that Trudeau gave more than Harper to other countries, my suggestion is go do some digging or else go pound sand. Because the only money you have accounted for that Harper gave to other countries is the foreign aid in your chart.

And as pointed out, the chart is skewed because Trudeau started giving yet more in foreign aid in the last two years, but the chart does not show that.

[flea beetle]

Your chart doesn’t include the 1.4 BILLION ANNUALLY Trudeau announced in 2019 to other countries for international support for women and girls health.

Or the 400 million in humanitarian aid to fight covid 19 in other countries announced in September 2020.

I am sure there is more. Just what I could find in a short google search. Will add as I find it.