Ev vehicles sask

[burnt]

A short, stark synopsis on the utter idiocy of thinking that EVs and batteries are going to propel us forward.

It relates the insurmountable restraints of inefficiency of storage, logistics, infrastructure and of EVs, and more.

"Put simply: infrastructural engineering capability to provide for electric cars and electric heating by 2050 is a massive and probably unachievable ambition. To attempt to accelerate it, to 2030, is madness. The rest of the world can look at Britain and choose whether to laugh or weep. One thing it shouldn’t do is emulate us."

https://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2020/03/18/electric_motors_versus_internal_combustion_engines_486956.amp.html

[Hamloc]

Good article in the Financial Post which addresses the loss of fuel taxes going towards road maintenance on electric vehicles. “Peter Shawn Taylor: What comes after the gas tax?” Undoubtedly at some point a fee per kilometre driven will be necessary how that is monitored and charged will be the only issues.

[Old Cowzilla]

I think we will be putting a radioactive chip in the mother board of our 1/2 tons before we solve this battery problem we just are not ready to admit it yet.

[chuckChuck]

With help from Tesla, nearly 80% of Norway's new car sales are electric

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-pushes-norways-ev-sales-new-record-2021-10-01/

OSLO, Oct 1 (Reuters) - (This Oct. 1 story corrects spelling of name in 12th paragraph)

Demand for Tesla Inc's (TSLA.O) mid-sized models helped push up electric car sales in Norway to nearly 80% of total car sales last month, data showed on Friday.

The country has been a global leader in switching to electric vehicles and seeks to become the first to end the sale of petrol and diesel engines by 2025.

Battery electric vehicles made up 77.5% of all new cars in September, the Norwegian Road Federation (OFV) said, up from 61.5% a year ago.

Tesla Model Y, a compact sports utility vehicle, was the top selling vehicle with 19.8% of the car market followed by the company's Model 3 sedan with 12.3%. Skoda's Enyaq was a distant third at 4.4%.

First unveiled by California-based Tesla in March 2019, the Model Y was only recently made available to European customers.

By exempting fully electric vehicles from taxes imposed on those relying on fossil fuels, oil-producing Norway has become a leader in ending the use of combustion engines, and in 2020 EVs outsold all other cars for the first time. read more

However, Norway's zero-tax policy could change if the centre-left winners of last month's national election go ahead with plans to tax the most expensive models.

LUXURY TAX

The next government is expected to be headed by Labour's Jonas Gahr Stoere, and will be made up of parties which have vowed to introduce 25% VAT on the fraction of the price tag of a new car that exceeds 600,000 Norwegian crowns ($69,300).

While Tesla's Model Y, costing less than the tax threshold, may be unaffected, the company's high-end S and X models are priced at up to 1.3 million crowns and could face substantial levies. Porsche, Audi and Mercedes-Benz would also be affected.

Labour says the tax will bring in extra cash to state coffers and is motivated by a sense of fairness.

The tax exemption for electric car purchases was meant as a way to introduce new technology, and can't last indefinitely, said Svein Roald Hansen, a Labour tax policy spokesman.

"It is a subsidy. And... the more expensive the car is, the bigger the subsidy," he said.

"We have in the last couple of years received a lot of new models... there is plenty to choose from for those who still want to buy a car while there is a VAT exemption," Hansen added.

A tax on electric luxury vehicles would be ill-timed and ultimately slow Norway's electrification, said Christina Bu who heads the Norwegian EV Association, an interest group.

Even in the northernmost part of the country with freezing temperatures in winter and reindeer roaming the streets, electric car sales have recently been outselling those powered by petrol, diesel and hybrid engines, Bu said.

"Now finally the more rural areas are starting to buy more electric cars and it's not the time now to remove the tax exemption because we need to also get these areas with higher market shares," she added.

($1 = 8.6543 Norwegian crowns)
Reporting by Victoria Klesty, editing by Terje Solsvik and Susan Fenton

[chuckChuck]

Chuck, try a mathematical exercise. Take it to the extreme that your leaders are mandating. At 100% EV's ( as they are promoting, including heavy trucking), and therefore no gas taxes collected anywhere, where does the funding come from for road maintenance and construction?

Do EV's not need snow plowed off, or sanding? Do they not wear the pavement out, or pack the gravel on gravel roads? Will nature stop heaving and cracking our roads if we all drive EV's? Will we never need to build a new road or upgrade an intersection if we all drive EV's?

Or do you expect to exponentially increase the fuel taxes on the remaining ICE vehicles, until the last person to be driving an ICE vehicle ends up shouldering the entire burden of maintaining our entire infrastructure all by themselves. Then what happens when the last ICE is driven off the road due to the astronomical cost, will it be OK to tax the EV's then?

So governments will never figure out how to replace the fuel tax that is used to maintain and build roads with another tax that will accomplish the same thing? This is not an insurmountable problem is it?

"According to the province, throughout the government's 2019-20 fiscal year, road-use fuel tax revenues totalled almost $454 million. However, road maintenance expenditures totalled nearly $616 million."

So as you see Saskatchewan already uses other sources of revenue to fund road maintenance.

EVs cost more than regular fuel vehicles, and buyers pay the standard 6% PST on a new vehicle. This means that new EV owners pay more PST on their vehicles than other new owners of regular fuel vehicles.

"Meanwhile, the province says it will continue to examine the future potential for expanding the EV tax to commercial vehicles and inter-jurisdictional trucking."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/sask-government-to-roll-out-150-tax-for-passenger-electric-vehicles-1.5977554

Sask. government to roll out $150 annual tax for passenger electric vehicles

Jim Farney, director of the the Johnson Shoyama Graduate School of Public Policy at the University of Regina, says the provincial government's decision to roll out the EV tax is a political "coin toss."

"The imagery on that is probably not great. But there's a policy argument that you might as well make that change before there's many electric cars around," Farney said.

Regina Mayor Sandra Masters said the province's new EV tax is the opposite direction of where Regina is aiming to go environmentally.

"I think we have another infrastructure problem as it relates to powering. If everybody switched to electric vehicles ... powering those electric vehicles ... there's implications on the on the grid itself. And that's going to need to be funded," Masters said.

"And so it does seem to be difficult in terms of taxing where we're trying to go. But at the same time, where we're trying to go is going to be a massive investment required. And so it needs to be paid for."

[jazz]

Dont ever have to worry about electric vehicles making any sort of dent in auto sales.

Unless you have drivers who want to spend $100k to drive their car twice a week.

Everyone with half a brain knows that electricity generation in Canada would have to triple. Thats probably two dozen new hydro dams. LOL.

And the streets would need to be plowed up to upgrade service to every household in Canada. Looking at literally trillions of dollars. And last I checked, Canada was broke.

[WiltonRanch]

Until they can build a battery which doesn’t lose close to half its charge from cold weather, upgrade the power grid while mothballing present coal generation and add capacity while also adopting electric heating for buildings then maybe ev’s will overtake ice. Not panning ev’s they have potential but as I said before it’s unintended consequences and mundane problems which blow the wheels off of new tech. Soviets built electric tractors and in Soviet fashion back in the 30’s or 40’s. Look it up for a good laugh. I still think you’ll see a large adoption of ev’s in the cities as that is where they make the most sense. The tech needs to become affordable and reliable for the masses. Everyone uses Norway as a comparison to Canada. Sure it can be cold there but there is this thing called the Gulf Stream which does give them a more temperate climate than the more continental weather we enjoy in the middle of Canada and Russia. Besides, a country of 6 million people with a power infrastructure second to none afforded by a properly run nationalized oil company positioned logistically to sell the oil into a premium market. Nationalization was an abject failure here because of incompetent socialists and this problem with geography which Russia shares as well. The armchair quarterbacks can draw all the comparisons to Western Europe they want but there are so many differences it’s foolish. Now compared to Russia maybe more so.

[jazz]

WR, nationalization works in Norway because they invest heavily in the resource and share its bounty with all citizens. They dont demonize it or restrict it or make it political. Every Norwegian is educated in the way the country keeps it lifestyle and how it pays for it.

In the last Canadian election, there were people on the streets of Toronto who didnt know where Alberta was or that Canada was the 4th largest oil producer in the world or that oil was our number one export contributing $200B to our GDP.

Nationalization failed here because the east wanted the goodies flowing to their voting base while restricting its development to block political clout moving out of the TOM corridor. It was a naked power, resource and money grab. Nothing more.

Very different models.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Comparisons with Norway are irrelevant when you consider that over 93% of Norway's electricity comes from hydro and they have no intentions of sabotaging their affordable reliable power grid by replacing it with wind and solar.
Much easier to export fossil fuels than electricity so why not use the almost unlimited and cheapest possible source of electricity to power automobiles, and conserve or export the fossil fuels.

And even better yet, thanks to the lunacy in Germany etc. Norway gets paid handsomely to act as their energy storage. They get paid to take the excess from Germany when the wind blows, and then they get paid again to sell it back to them when the wind doesn't blow. All that can be used to make energy even cheaper yet for the Norwegians.

[WiltonRanch]

Comparisons with Norway are irrelevant when you consider that over 93% of Norway's electricity comes from hydro and they have no intentions of sabotaging their affordable reliable power grid by replacing it with wind and solar.
Much easier to export fossil fuels than electricity so why not use the almost unlimited and cheapest possible source of electricity to power automobiles, and conserve or export the fossil fuels.

And even better yet, thanks to the lunacy in Germany etc. Norway gets paid handsomely to act as their energy storage. They get paid to take the excess from Germany when the wind blows, and then they get paid again to sell it back to them when the wind doesn't blow. All that can be used to make energy even cheaper yet for the Norwegians.

One our friends from Denmark told us Norwegians don’t pay for their electricity. Like you said all hydro power. I’d imagine they pay for electricity but nothing like the rest of Europe. Taxation is quite high but I think they get more bang for their buck. Oil revenues help.

[blackpowder]

Yawn.....stretch....
I see you guys are still at it.
Here's one for the biggest ahole and fool on here.
It will be years before we have reliable true high speed internet access in 99% of this country. And you're expecting electricity generation, storage, and transmission to be everywhere in 10 years.
I suspect away from the microphone most people are smarter than that. If not they fully deserve what they get.

[jazz]

I suspect away from the microphone most people are smarter than that. If not they fully deserve what they get.

BP dont underestimate the stupidity of govts and the electorate. Germany is a prime example. Shut down their nukes, shunned FF, spent trillions on wind and solar and then went to Mr Putin to be saved. Now facing shortages and skyrocketing prices.

And they just voted in an even farther left Marxist govt who wants to go harder on climate change.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Yawn.....stretch....
I see you guys are still at it.
Here's one for the biggest ahole and fool on here.

Look on the bright side, at least he's not lecturing us about covid anymore. In fact he seems to be the only one who is following the rules, no big surprise there.

[chuckChuck]

60% of Canada's electricity is from hydro with a population 6 times larger than Norway. Quebec and Manitoba have a large surplus of hydro at a lower cost than the rest of Canada.

Our 25 kw solar system will easily cover an EV along with most of our farm needs.

Most trips within cities are relatively short well suited to EVs.

"Commuting is a fact of life for many Canadians. In 2016, 12.6 million Canadians reported that they commuted to work by car. For these commuters, the average duration of the commute was 24 minutes, and the median distance to work among those who had a usual workplace was 8.7 kilometres."

Many EV owners say cost of ownership and operation is lower, even with the increased cost, because fuel and maintenance costs are lower.

When cars first become available did everyone give up their horses and drive a model A? I don't think so because they were too expensive and required gasoline instead of hay and oats. The transition took a awhile.

Lots of $50,000 - 80,000 dollar pickups running around, so I don't think the cost is as prohibitive as some would think. And it will come down as adoption goes up.

On a trip to town today, just saw several that left their engines running while in the store. I guess the price of diesel and gas isn't high enough yet, cause some clueless people who own pickups haven't figured out they can shut them off when they are not driving!

Did they not get the memo that prolonged idling is not good for engines or the pocketbook. I bet some of the people who leave their engines running will also be complaining about how expensive fuel is. LOL

[WiltonRanch]

BP dont underestimate the stupidity of govts and the electorate. Germany is a prime example. Shut down their nukes, shunned FF, spent trillions on wind and solar and then went to Mr Putin to be saved. Now facing shortages and skyrocketing prices.

And they just voted in an even farther left Marxist govt who wants to go harder on climate change.

Temperate climates like that in Western Europe have difficulty making alternatives make economic sense then how does it make sense in cold climates? I fear we are in for the same pain out here in the boonies because we simply cannot exist without burning something to keep warm or move things. I’m sitting here looking at a power pole in the yard which was placed here in 1955. Every time sask power comes here my dad questions the guys about changing the bloody thing and they say it’s still good and if it breaks off they’ll maybe replace it. The grid is so antiquated we are lucky to have enough power service to keep water bowls, dads house, and the welder and air compressor running let alone aeration fans going without blowing a breaker. Not to mention poor cell service let alone decent wireless internet. If any of these eco schemes are to come to fruition fix the basic mundane things in the infrastructure before you go taxing it with more demand.