Alberta Climate Records

[shtferbrains]

A5 show us the data and analysis for the period 1900 -1950. Because unless we have that data, we would have to take your word for the "cherry picked" data.

In other words prove that the period 1900 - 1950 would change the outcome significantly when 1951 -2017 are included.

But you are in agreement with data and analysis from 1951 - 2017 which clearly show a significant change in key climate indicators?

Les Henry presented all the data from Swift Current research station records starting from early 1900's that show no discernable pattern.
Poor old Les is considered amongst his peers the be one of the best at data interpretation but now he it is just labeled climate change denier.


You surly saw that didn't you Chuck.

[GDR]

Question for all you guys in Alberta , has your growing season been getting longer by 2-5 weeks per years per what was stated in chucky’s article ? Seriously?
So the growing season in Alberta has be getting longer by a month to 2 months every two years ?
Kinda sounds like that rush of news articles from around the world say that every country was warming at twice the rate as every other country ... lol

There are farmers on here from far southern Alberta to the far north , west and east . A real world snap shot of the past 10 years will be interesting.
Remember, frost free days during the growing season are a huge factor . Plants don’t grow very well below zero. How was the fall frost damage the previous few years in Alberta ? Certainly was a huge factor in this area . This is the first year in at least 5 where corn cobs made almost full maturity. Maybe in Alberta that was not the case with your growing seasons being almost 2 months longer now ?

Our last frost in this area this year was June 20th

My response is likely not what you are looking for here Furrow. Yes the growing season has gotten longer here, dont seem to get as many of those late May or early June frosts, often some surprising frosts in the fall but lots of years plants are still active until mid to end of October. Yes we have had some September snows recently but historically that's not unusual. When I was a kid nobody grew wheat, now it's a third of everyone's rotation.

[furrowtickler]

My response is likely not what you are looking for here Furrow. Yes the growing season has gotten longer here, dont seem to get as many of those late May or early June frosts, often some surprising frosts in the fall but lots of years plants are still active until mid to end of October. Yes we have had some September snows recently but historically that's not unusual. When I was a kid nobody grew wheat, now it's a third of everyone's rotation.

Thanks for the reply , again just want to hear real world info from farmers that are invested, not statisticians behind a desk .
Wheat varieties are also much early than 30-40 years so that plays a big part
Thanks for the reply

[chuckChuck]

Les Henry presented all the data from Swift Current research station records starting from early 1900's that show no discernable pattern.
Poor old Les is considered amongst his peers the be one of the best at data interpretation but now he it is just labeled climate change denier.


You surly saw that didn't you Chuck.

I took a look at Henry's article in grain news again. It was an interesting and very limited choice of data to look at because he chose only Swift Current and Fargo ND.

His conclusion was "Based on the data assembled, the climate change happening in our area of interest is nothing but good news — it’s wetter and with temperature little changed in the months that really matter. July is the key temperature month for canola and it is a bit cooler. We must not ignore the big bonus to crop production from Mother Nature, with higher CO2 in the atmosphere."

The Alberta site breaks down precipitation in seasonal portions. Although Henry says July precipitation levels have not changed much the Alberta site shows Winter, Summer and fall precipitation levels are down most places in Alberta and Spring levels are up. But overall annual precipitation is down from 1951- 2017. And down dramatically in many locations up to 6 inches lower.

On temperature Henry says July Temperatures have not changed much. The Alberta site shows winter mean annual temperatures have changed the most dramatically upward with the spring, summer and fall temperatures increasing less but none the less rising.

His dataset is much longer than the Alberta Climate records but doesn't go into any detail primarily focusing on precipitation with no mention of evapotranspiration.

So it is hard to compare his data set directly to Alberta's Climate Records shorter climate record.

But his statement that "it’s wetter and with temperature little changed in the months that really matter" seems off the mark. For one thing its not wetter from 1951 to 2017 and it's warmer especially in winter and in the foothills. And its also warmer in the months that matter. He also makes no mention of declining glacier and water resources or the impact on water from increasing temperatures.

If you look at the increased evapotranspiration index it clearly shows there is a large increase in evapotranspiration especially in southern Alberta but everywhere in Alberta. This affects forages, cropping and water resources.

In order to understand climate change you really need a climate scientist to cover this complex subject. Henry only looked at 2 locations and with not much seasonal detail and made a very broad claim that its wetter and temperatures in July are just about the same. The 1951- 2017 data don't support this conclusion and I doubt that Henry's conclusions would stand up against the scrutiny of the many actively researching and publishing climate scientists with all the data and climate resources available to them.

Take a look at the Alberta Climate Records maps and you will get a better understanding of what change looks like in a visual format from the period of 1951- 2017.

[shtferbrains]

I think Les emphasized that he used those two locations because he was sure all the data came from locations that he was confident had not varied in the reported time. No worries about deleted locations that is prominent in all of the more recent data sets.
Or as he likes to say "who's thermometer "

Next time you run into him you can explain the deficiencies you see.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

If anyone wants to see another data point. Check out the work Murray Hartman did. He analyzed all the data from the lacombe research station weather station. Specifically chosen because it has remained in the exact same location since the beginning of time and urban sprawl hasn't overtaken it. His data does indicate that the growing season has lengthened, in fact his data indicates that growing conditions have improved by every possible measure over the entire time frame. There were some terrible extremes early in the records in every direction that we are fortunate not to have endured in recent decades.

[Blaithin]

I was just browsing some rainfall data this morning.

AFAWK all these locations are at the towns airports. They shouldn’t be very far away from each other to explain some freak thunderstorm (because there was lots of those this year…) causing the differences. Also it’s always the EC sites that seem to be far and away drier than the AFSC ones over the summer.



Also had an independent comparison with an AFSC station and the farms rain gauge, less than a quarter mile away. 4.25” difference. Absolutely no way a storm hit the AFSC site and didn’t touch the farm. So….

How does one decide which data is correct?

[furrowtickler]

So have the growing season actually lengthened 2 months in the past few years ???
You guys can’t be serious.........

[Hamloc]

I generally find it a waste of time to debate Chuck2 but I appreciate the energy of various posters who continue to do so. I think what astonishes me is the difference between what our political leaders tell us is happening and consequently what we must do and how different that is when compared to what is happening in the rest of the world. I am thankful for media like Reuters which publishes more honest articles than can be found on sites like the CBC. I read this article on Reuters tonight: “COP26 aims to banish coal. Asia is building hundreds of power plants to burn it.” Countries like Japan, China and India while no doubt are installing renewable generation they are also building many new coal fired power plants. The numbers in the article truly dwarf any changes that can be made by Canada. Trudeau will tax us into submission while Asia continues to burn coal for decades to come! Canadians really need to wake up!

[furrowtickler]

I generally find it a waste of time to debate Chuck2 but I appreciate the energy of various posters who continue to do so. I think what astonishes me is the difference between what our political leaders tell us is happening and consequently what we must do and how different that is when compared to what is happening in the rest of the world. I am thankful for media like Reuters which publishes more honest articles than can be found on sites like the CBC. I read this article on Reuters tonight: “COP26 aims to banish coal. Asia is building hundreds of power plants to burn it.” Countries like Japan, China and India while no doubt are installing renewable generation they are also building many new coal fired power plants. The numbers in the article truly dwarf any changes that can be made by Canada. Trudeau will tax us into submission while Asia continues to burn coal for decades to come! Canadians really need to wake up!

Call them out .... period.
Other than this year , they are 100% wrong in a huge area here the past 5 years. It’s actually laughable

Maybe the Alberta boarder is the climate line ...LOL .
The facts here on the ground in a huge area are the exact opposite of chucks original post

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Question for all you guys in Alberta , has your growing season been getting longer by 2-5 weeks per years per what was stated in chucky’s article ? Seriously?
So the growing season in Alberta has be getting longer by a month to 2 months every two years ?
Kinda sounds like that rush of news articles from around the world say that every country was warming at twice the rate as every other country ... lol

There are farmers on here from far southern Alberta to the far north , west and east . A real world snap shot of the past 10 years will be interesting.
Remember, frost free days during the growing season are a huge factor . Plants don’t grow very well below zero. How was the fall frost damage the previous few years in Alberta ? Certainly was a huge factor in this area . This is the first year in at least 5 where corn cobs made almost full maturity. Maybe in Alberta that was not the case with your growing seasons being almost 2 months longer now ?

Our last frost in this area this year was June 20th

I just checked the Lacombe data I referenced in another post. Since 1905, the growing season has increased by 36 days. With spring frost dates getting earler, and fall frost dates getting later. By eyeball, it appears that most of the gains were in the period prior to 1950. In fact, if you started the graph at about 1965, instead of 1905, it appears that it would be flat on both spring and fall, to possibly slightly declining.

According to the same data set, This is entirely a function of higher night time temperatures. During the entire period, nighttime lows have increased, while daytime highs have decreased, and the extreme highs have declined very noticable, especially since the 1930's.

I double checked Chucks map for my own area. Supposedly we have gained 10 days of growing season since 1951. I wasn't actually around then, so I can't verify. But the old timers talk about some nasty growing seasons around that time, after a long period of benevolent weather throughout the earlier part of the century. As I stated above, by pretending that the 30's don't exist, and starting in the cooling phase, the picture is skewed to show warming.

Definitely in a downtrend in recent years, this year being the exception.


If I cherry pick 1986 as a start date, it appears that our growing season length is in a downtrend ever since.


Hot days haven't increased at all according to the Alberta Climate Records site.

And as for Chuck's concern that Les Henry is only looking at 2 locations. I suggest Chuck look at the official records available on EC's website. When I have tried to compile the info myself, I find that there are gaps in EVERY station record, days, weeks, months and years at a time. And when I try to infill the gaps with nearby stations, I sometimes have to try 5 or more before finding one that isn't also missing the same time period. Which means that the maps on the website in question are just as accurate as the data they are based on. Or in other words, there is more guessing and infilling than actual data. By far. At least the data Les Henry used is complete and not man made.

I've met Les, and I would pay to see him debate Chuck on climate, or any other topic for that matter...

[TASFarms]

Wide spread Frost this year on June 21st. Isn’t that in the middle of the growing season?