Alberta Climate Records

[chuckChuck]

As I said this is an area where the experts on climate science have to be listened to. They have access to large amounts of data and no doubt a better understanding of all the complex analysis required to look at climate change over long periods of time. They also have to defend their published research through peer review.

I would like to see Les Henry's conclusions reviewed by a climate scientist. Because without peer review we have no way to know if Henry's assumptions and conclusions would stand.

For one thing you need the data from many many locations not just 2 hand picked ones. And you also need more than just precipitation and temperature charted on an annual basis.

[Guest]

what is your opinion on a cement plant burning plastic jugs for heat ?
way better than NG ? right?

[shtferbrains]

Keep digging Chuck.
When you get the hole deep enough someone from here will volunteer to fill it in if you wait there.

[GALAXIE500]

South and east of Lethbridge the climate trend indicates increased
annual potential evapotranspiration of 75 - 100mm (3-4) inches
between 1951 and 2017.

That's a very large change over time that means much less moisture for forages and crops.

I lived in Lethbridge from 1988-1990 , while going to college. Since that time , the amount of development , IE: big box stores , housing , restaurants , etc. on that part of the city has been immense. The population at that time was 56,000 (guessing a bit) , now it is over 100,000.

All that pavement and development makes heat , but is it mentioned in these "so called " climate trend reports ?

There was nothing but farmland and a few people living south of Lethbridge College in 1988. She's all covered up by urban sprawl now.

[furrowtickler]

Yet another prime example this morning, the entire surrounding area was 4-5 deg c colder than the micro climate at the airport. Happens every single calm cold morning. So what is the real temp that does not get recorded? You add that up over the years in many many locations and results would be much different.

[blackpowder]

what is your opinion on a cement plant burning plastic jugs for heat ?
way better than NG ? right?

I believe our climate minister has said it's not about cement plants it's about Alberta's oil. But don't worry our PM said we need to be "brought along"

In other news, Xi Jinping sends only a written statement to Cop 26. Bahaha.

[chuckChuck]

I lived in Lethbridge from 1988-1990 , while going to college. Since that time , the amount of development , IE: big box stores , housing , restaurants , etc. on that part of the city has been immense. The population at that time was 56,000 (guessing a bit) , now it is over 100,000.

All that pavement and development makes heat , but is it mentioned in these "so called " climate trend reports ?

There was nothing but farmland and a few people living south of Lethbridge College in 1988. She's all covered up by urban sprawl now.

Take a look at the map and you will see that every county can be looked at. So that includes the majority of non urban and largely rural communities where urban development would have almost no impact. The ones I referred to were the general area south and east of Lethbridge and no where near the city.

[helmsdale]

If you hacked these graphs off at 2016, i suppose you could extrapolate a trend line that said frost free days were increasing. The last 5 or 6 years sure bent that line down though.

[helmsdale]

This site has been unimpacted by "urban heat island effect", but I suppose one could still argue that the fact it's surrounded by cropland, which would alter the "natural state".

But these graphs show perhaps a slight increase of yearly mean temp, but not necessarily much in the way of an increase for growing season mean temp, or growing degree days.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Take a look at the map and you will see that every county can be looked at. So that includes the majority of non urban and largely rural communities where urban development would have almost no impact. The ones I referred to were the general area south and east of Lethbridge and no where near the city.

That is not at all what the map is showing. The map is divided into roughly 6 by 6 mile grids. Do you seriously think that there is a weather station in the center of each of those?

There are weather stations near most larger urban areas, and a very occasional rural station throughout the province, and those records are extrapolated out to the surrounding rural areas. Contaminating all of the rural squares with the urban heat island effect. In my case, the nearest stations are 25 miles NW, and 25 miles South. In recent decades there have been no active stations inbetween. Any claimed granularity on the level the map indicates is entirely man made, not based on actual data.

And as noted above, even those existing stations have so many holes and gaps in the data that even those data sets have massive infilling and extrapolating from stations much further away.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I was just browsing some rainfall data this morning.

AFAWK all these locations are at the towns airports. They shouldn’t be very far away from each other to explain some freak thunderstorm (because there was lots of those this year…) causing the differences. Also it’s always the EC sites that seem to be far and away drier than the AFSC ones over the summer.



Also had an independent comparison with an AFSC station and the farms rain gauge, less than a quarter mile away. 4.25” difference. Absolutely no way a storm hit the AFSC site and didn’t touch the farm. So….

How does one decide which data is correct?

And coincidentally, AFSC's rainfall records, which just so happen to be higher than anyone else's, are the ones used to calculate rainfall for lack of moisture insurance. And miraculously, every year seems to be above average. Kind of like the global warmists claims that everywhere is warming twice as fast as everywhere else.

[chuckChuck]

That is not at all what the map is showing. The map is divided into roughly 12 by 12 mile grids. Do you seriously think that there is a weather station in the center of each of those?

There are weather stations near most larger urban areas, and a very occasional rural station throughout the province, and those records are extrapolated out to the surrounding rural areas. Contaminating all of the rural squares with the urban heat island effect. In my case, the nearest stations are 25 miles NW, and 25 miles South. In recent decades there have been no active stations inbetween. Any claimed granularity on the level the map indicates is entirely man made, not based on actual data.

And as noted above, even those existing stations have so many holes and gaps in the data that even those data sets have massive infilling and extrapolating from stations much further away.

Whoa there A5.

Are you saying all the data for the entire province on the Alberta Climate Records are "contaminated" by the urban heat island effect? Seriously?

That is quite the claim to put it mildly. So how do you know that? Show us your math.

You don't think that climate scientists are well aware of the heat island impact and take account of this in their research and analysis?

Here is an explanation

"Scientists have been very careful to ensure that UHI is not influencing the temperature trends. To address this concern, they have compared the data from remote stations (sites that are nowhere near human activity) to more urban sites. Likewise, investigators have also looked at sites across rural and urban China, which has experienced rapid growth in urbanisation over the past 30 years and is therefore very likely to show UHI. The difference between ideal rural sites compared to urban sites in temperature trends has been very small:"

So any suggestion that urban heat islands are driving regional, provincial or national climate change is not accurate.

Of course urban heat islands do drive urban temperatures much higher.

Last June and July 595 people, mostly seniors died in British Columbia's record heat wave.

This is profound evidence of the very negative impacts of climate change.