fertilizer to conservative's questions

[SASKFARMER]

Tom for too long the idiots have run the asylum and farmers did nothing to fight back. It's time no more negotiations with ****ing morons or we will be done.

I say let the ****ers starve that is the only way this shit show will end.

Being nice has achieved **** all.

[SASKFARMER]

It was an example of a full system for max yields.

Maybe you need a rebate on variable rate tec or a gov handout to help you grow a crop. The reality is this way of doing business is just a carrot to get idiots to follow.

It doesn't work.

[HITTGrapevine]

World wide Supply/Demand


Europe is predicting 25% fertilizer shortage for up coming growing season. Shortages have been in the making for months now.

What do you think o Toole can do? Your grasping at straws.

You're honestly thinking Canadian Fertilizer companies are going to have a domestic price for Canadian farmers with a world wide shortage and profits that can be made?

Are you forgetting the two tier domestic wheat pricing system of years gone by and where that ended up.

As Neil Young would sing "Keep on Rocking in the Free World"

Haven't you heard? There's a shortage of everything, ;-)
Fertilizer, machinery, automobiles, freight, semi-conductors, useless consumer goods made in China, etc, etc.
That's why we're all paying more for everything.
Artificial supply crisis is all around us.
Here's a comment from BNN about "production discipline" in the auto market.
"According to Ian MacDonald, the chief marketing officer at AutoTrader.ca, carmakers may be learning the value of production discipline, and re-evaluate their inventory models."
Is the fertilizer industry any different?
The whole world is using production discipline to to ratchet up prices.
When demand reaches a fevered pitch, they'll increase production, but MSRPs won't go down.
Nothing new here.
Just big companies doing what they do, looking for ways to generate profits.

[jamesb]

It was an example of a full system for max yields.

Maybe you need a rebate on variable rate tec or a gov handout to help you grow a crop. The reality is this way of doing business is just a carrot to get idiots to follow.

It doesn't work.

Yes it really appears by the nature of the GARS type program, they encourage their customers to go full bore on inputs, with the idea that - go for it, your covered. To be honest its a lot different from a cautious approach in the past. I remember back in the day the soil tests from the U of S had a range of recommendations based on soil moisture conditions. I believe that some will rethink that full on plan. Lots will ride on what the cost of margin insurance will be going forward. We are busy reclaiming farm land now that conditions are good for it. I say reclaim cause almost without question when we push bush and break land up for the first time in modern times there is almost always rock piles and other evidence of cultivation that probably occurred before things got wetter after ww2. I have my grampa's RCAF aerial photos that he bought in the 1950's. On most of our land almost no tree's existed for a lot of the land until the last half of the last century. The fertility on those reclaimed areas is amazing.

[BTO780]

There will be huge cut backs in rates. Spending $135-$145 to grow wheat that’s “maybe” worth $10 come next fall is absolutely insane. Even today’s price doesn’t justify anything close to that.
Taking $12.50 wheat to buy $1250T urea is ludicrous.

Production is already cut for 2022, and haven’t even factored in another possible drought.

[Guest]

and don't forget seed prices, triple threat

[jazz]

Production is already cut for 2022, and haven’t even factored in another possible drought.

Wait until the new crop insurance premiums are set. Farmers are going to be the ones to bail that program out. Feds still fcking around with Agstab and Ag recovery instead of making crop insurance more robust.

If guys have coverage reductions they wont be going for it in 22 with input prices where they are and lack of moisture.

I think GARS is a scam.

[Hamloc]

Saskfarmer wrote;

"It was an example now move on."

Some of us are trying to actually fight the CDN Liberal Feds [passing laws with farm killing plans].... with resolutions and negotiations to modify restrictive policies like the '30% 2030 starvation plan for our farms.... and moratoriums to stop the destruction of wildlife habitats and removal of trees and hedgerows....

Some Folks [like you on here] bitterly complain about our Commodity group leadership...

Saying...that we don't do anything useful.

Yet with 'Friends like you" who needs enemies SaskFarmer.... Farmers can be their own worst enemies... you provided a good example of why this happens.

What resolutions and work are you doing... to stop the Liberal CDN Gov plan to starve your farm SaskFarmer in consultation with your Commodity Groups in SK?

You boast about your fleet of construction equipment bought to destroy wildlife and Climate refuge habitat... while providing ammunition to environmentalists to pass restrictive laws that will make farming an over regulated nightmare...simply because personal responsibility and self discipline are Not part of your farm environmental plan.

Cheers... the fight is lonely one Saskfarmer... thanks for not doing your share.

When the hot dry winds ravage your crops... because you destroyed the environmental protection with cats and trackhoes... [to rip up wetlands] then...you could complain to your self for magnifying the negative weather problems on all our farms!

Actually Tom I see both sides of the fence on this one. Saskfarmer talking about purchasing construction equipment is in my opinion the reality of where farmers heads are at. In my area with land prices through the roof due to competition for land and the continued low interest rate policies many farmers in my area are knocking down trees and due to the dry year cleaning up and creating new drainage ditches. The government on the other hand is certainly in a different world as the Guelph Statement that was put out by the countries agricultural ministers certainly attests to. The average farmer does not relate to what was said in the Guelph Statement.

You are correct though when a farmer talks about putting down 140 lbs. of actual nitrogen environmentalists are rubbing their hands together thinking about how easy it is to show how irresponsible farmers are. Not really sure how the government will legislate reducing fertilizer use as those at the lower end of the scale are not using excessive amounts of fertilizer. But as I said both Tom and Saskfarmer make valid points.

[BTO780]

Wait until the new crop insurance premiums are set. Farmers are going to be the ones to bail that program out. Feds still fcking around with Agstab and Ag recovery instead of making crop insurance more robust.

If guys have coverage reductions they wont be going for it in 22 with input prices where they are and lack of moisture.

I think GARS is a scam.

Guys with 35 bu durum avg or better @ $18 bu, who is going to sink much into the ground?
Can crap insurance actually come back and ask for fert records and deny a claim??

[jazz]

Guys with 35 bu durum avg or better @ $18 bu, who is going to sink much into the ground?
Can crap insurance actually come back and ask for fert records and deny a claim??

If the feds have to step in to back some of these programs, you can bet Trudeau and his gang will have heavy carrot and stick conditions in there.

Thats why I never want the feds in our business for any reason. The narrative has already been pushed by Sask party that farmers are reckless and now need a bailout and people are paying 20% higher rates at the grocery store because of it. I can just imagine the announcement from the feds if that happened. Demonize an entire sector of the productive economy again.

Farmers need to take this risk profile upon themselves and not look for govt help. Not from this govt anyway.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

You boast about your fleet of construction equipment bought to destroy wildlife and Climate refuge habitat... while providing ammunition to environmentalists to pass restrictive laws that will make farming an over regulated nightmare...simply because personal responsibility and self discipline are Not part of your farm environmental plan.

The other side of that coin, is that we see the writing on the wall. We will be regulated out of the ability to make any improvements on out own land soon enough, and are powerless to stop any such legislation. Therefore the need to accomplish as much as possible while it is still legally possible.

And as for wildlife refuge, more trees here now than at any time since the pioneers settled here. An old couple stopped by this summer, a name I'd only heard of in reference to the property their family once farmed. They moved away around 1970. The most stark difference he commented on was that he couldn't believe how much more bush there is now, unrecognizable, the views completely blocked out by trees compared to then.

And according to the old timers, drastically more wildlife than ever before. Certainly true in my lifetime.

[jazz]

The other side of that coin, is that we see the writing on the wall. We will be regulated out of the ability to make any improvements on out own land soon enough, and are powerless to stop any such legislation. Therefore the need to accomplish as much as possible while it is still legally possible.

I think you are missing the possibility that the feds could entice, coerce or even mandate farmers put native habitats, wetlands and trees back up again.

The sticks are endless in our pathetic system.

[WiltonRanch]

The other side of that coin, is that we see the writing on the wall. We will be regulated out of the ability to make any improvements on out own land soon enough, and are powerless to stop any such legislation. Therefore the need to accomplish as much as possible while it is still legally possible.

And as for wildlife refuge, more trees here now than at any time since the pioneers settled here. An old couple stopped by this summer, a name I'd only heard of in reference to the property their family once farmed. They moved away around 1970. The most stark difference he commented on was that he couldn't believe how much more bush there is now, unrecognizable, the views completely blocked out by trees compared to then.

And according to the old timers, drastically more wildlife than ever before. Certainly true in my lifetime.

Same thing here. Lack of periodic fires and zero tillage has seen an explosion of deer moose and elk populations. When I was a kid a moose sighting was a big thing. Elk non existent. Now we have a season for them. Even bush in places there wasn’t when I was young. More vegetation and carbon sequestration going on here today than when our ancestors got here.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I think you are missing the possibility that the feds could entice, coerce or even mandate farmers put native habitats, wetlands and trees back up again.

The sticks are endless in our pathetic system.

And who is to decide what "back up again" is defined as, and at what date in history do we define nature to have been in perfect harmony, that we need to get back to.

As someone noted above, most trees around here are not factory installed. There are old fencelines, rock piles, machinery, farmyards etc in the middle of them. The google earth time lapse shows clearly how much the bush has grown around here since 1986. Many of the big sloughs around here are partially dammed by roads. Decades of plowing and one ways has created dams around every old field edge that creates new sloughs.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Same thing here. Lack of periodic fires and zero tillage has seen an explosion of deer moose and elk populations. When I was a kid a moose sighting was a big thing. Elk non existent. Now we have a season for them. Even bush in places there wasn’t when I was young. More vegetation and carbon sequestration going on here today than when our ancestors got here.

My dad said that when he was young, any deer or moose who was brave enough to show its face ended up on some starving familys supper table immediately. It was exciting to see a deer or moose when we rode the shool bus. I drove my son to school today, and lost count of how many we saw.