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In defense of techinal analysis

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    In defense of techinal analysis

    For Riders2010,

    Full disclosure, I don't do any complicated TA myself, but I follow many who do.

    First off, as Wheatking said in a previous thread, there is no silver bullet, and logically, there can't be one single indicator that just works every time, because if it did, everyone and every computer would figure it out, and what everyone knows, isn't worth knowing. The move would be over before it even started.

    To me, TA is simply a way to attempt to quantify human emotion. Our emotions of fear and greed being quite predictable.
    I suspect we can all relate to the sick feeling we get when we sell and the next day the price goes limit up, or panic sell at the very bottom. Or kick yourself forever more for not buying that piece of land that was too expensive at the time. These events leave nasty scars, and no matter how disciplined we are, they affect our future decisions. We remember our successes and assume we are invincible only making us more and more greedy. Analysing a chart is trying to analyze at what point the buyers and sellers were greedy or fearful, and predict at what points they will do so again, or when they will trade places.

    The best example would be missing the opportunity to sell at the top (of what will become the range, but that can't be known or knowable yet) , then getting another chance, and being slightly too greedy, so when the third chance comes along, we have learned our lesson, and everyone is ready to sell at the top of the range, for fear of losing out once again, fear wins over greed. So there becomes huge resistance to going above that price. But if the demand is strong enough that buyers consume all of the offers at that resistance, buying everything that the sellers regretted not selling on the last two opportunities, and have to bid higher, there is far less volume of sellers above that point, because the fearful sellers already sold out, and the few greedy sellers who were holding out for a little bit more, now get even more greedy. Then the previously greedy buyers who missed out because they were expecting the previous pattern to hold, become the fearful (end user, has to have the product at any price), or greedy ( speculating on even higher prices) and compete for the dwindling. Whereas if the buyers didn't run out of willing sellers at that price, and the price doesn't break above the resistance, then buyers get greedy and the sellers get fearful. As the sellers who got too greedy at the top, now have to pile in on the way down, while the buyers can sit back and wait for the price to come to them.

    Which is my long winded way of explaining what was meant by Bullish above, and bearish below. No one can know if the price will break through that number, but it if does, it will keep going, and if it doesn't, it will fall. Which is absolutely useless information unless you are flexible enough to wait and see what happens. But it will give a good idea of what to expect if a certain event happens, based on our collective emotional response in previous similar situations. Turning points above or below that number are probably just noise.

    I suspect you could save all the effort of studying TA, and just study human emotions and end up at the same place, without having to translate it all through numbers and lines on a chart.

    You would think that we would learn our lessons and not repeat the same mistakes, but bubbles keep happening, we still get the most bullish at the tops, and most bearish at the bottoms. We still project every trend indefinitely into the future as if cycles don't exist. We still hear about Joe Blow making millions investing in bitcoin/tulips/dotcom/real estate etc. and throw all logic out the window to do the same.

    #2
    Originally posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
    For Riders2010,

    Full disclosure, I don't do any complicated TA myself, but I follow many who do.

    First off, as Wheatking said in a previous thread, there is no silver bullet, and logically, there can't be one single indicator that just works every time, because if it did, everyone and every computer would figure it out, and what everyone knows, isn't worth knowing. The move would be over before it even started.

    To me, TA is simply a way to attempt to quantify human emotion. Our emotions of fear and greed being quite predictable.
    I suspect we can all relate to the sick feeling we get when we sell and the next day the price goes limit up, or panic sell at the very bottom. Or kick yourself forever more for not buying that piece of land that was too expensive at the time. These events leave nasty scars, and no matter how disciplined we are, they affect our future decisions. We remember our successes and assume we are invincible only making us more and more greedy. Analysing a chart is trying to analyze at what point the buyers and sellers were greedy or fearful, and predict at what points they will do so again, or when they will trade places.

    The best example would be missing the opportunity to sell at the top (of what will become the range, but that can't be known or knowable yet) , then getting another chance, and being slightly too greedy, so when the third chance comes along, we have learned our lesson, and everyone is ready to sell at the top of the range, for fear of losing out once again, fear wins over greed. So there becomes huge resistance to going above that price. But if the demand is strong enough that buyers consume all of the offers at that resistance, buying everything that the sellers regretted not selling on the last two opportunities, and have to bid higher, there is far less volume of sellers above that point, because the fearful sellers already sold out, and the few greedy sellers who were holding out for a little bit more, now get even more greedy. Then the previously greedy buyers who missed out because they were expecting the previous pattern to hold, become the fearful (end user, has to have the product at any price), or greedy ( speculating on even higher prices) and compete for the dwindling. Whereas if the buyers didn't run out of willing sellers at that price, and the price doesn't break above the resistance, then buyers get greedy and the sellers get fearful. As the sellers who got too greedy at the top, now have to pile in on the way down, while the buyers can sit back and wait for the price to come to them.

    Which is my long winded way of explaining what was meant by Bullish above, and bearish below. No one can know if the price will break through that number, but it if does, it will keep going, and if it doesn't, it will fall. Which is absolutely useless information unless you are flexible enough to wait and see what happens. But it will give a good idea of what to expect if a certain event happens, based on our collective emotional response in previous similar situations. Turning points above or below that number are probably just noise.

    I suspect you could save all the effort of studying TA, and just study human emotions and end up at the same place, without having to translate it all through numbers and lines on a chart.

    You would think that we would learn our lessons and not repeat the same mistakes, but bubbles keep happening, we still get the most bullish at the tops, and most bearish at the bottoms. We still project every trend indefinitely into the future as if cycles don't exist. We still hear about Joe Blow making millions investing in bitcoin/tulips/dotcom/real estate etc. and throw all logic out the window to do the same.
    I like this.

    Comment


      #3
      The Buffet's say don't spend any time stewing over the one's you loose cuss you can't win them all. Just get back to work and put your ego in the closet. Guess that's why there rich old boys, it takes time stay healthy.

      Comment


        #4
        Ok hahahaha I m sorry but that’s
        Lesson 1 of life yes we’re human
        I m talking about the
        Part where you can show me numbers and
        Lines drawn on a paper can tell you what the price
        Any commodity will be tomorrow, next month
        Next year?
        Has anyone shown that in March 2020 they predicted
        22 dollar canola in fall of 2021? That’s the level
        We are at.

        For all you likers of the above post I remember
        Nearly all of you complaining about the so called
        Experts not predicting the market or did you not?
        Was that all balognie? The Burnett’s etc were
        Criticized daily on here what has changed?Lmao!
        The thousands of farmers who locked in those low
        Canola prices and got took to
        The cleaners must have had advice from someone?

        Again I m not against tech analyst posting in fact
        Very welcome him to do so.

        And so based on that 10 minute waste of my life
        Reading that I m a human tell Me what the price of
        Canary canola flax barley wheat will be
        tomorrow, next Friday next month
        March 2022 and then sept 2022! Please
        And thank you in advance! Because that’s what
        This really is all about. The facts.

        The more info the buyers have the lower
        The price they will offer.

        Comment


          #5
          I readily admit that I get caught up in the emotion of marketing and easily make mistakes. My take on charting is that I find it is always a good fallback to try and see the big picture. A very simple chart that my market guy always updates and uses that I take heed of is one where one can see the amount of time the price is at a particular point. For me its a very simple guide that if we have a price available , nearby or deferred that had only been obtainable for 5 or 10 percent of the time, its a pretty good indication that sales are probably a win. Over the year I have been to a lot of market seminars and courses that teach charting and as others said it takes the emotion out of the equation somewhat. When facts are in black and white on the screen it clarifies things. I remember back in the 80's and getting exposed to charting at Don Bousquet's meetings around the prairies. I have come a long way since then. Its great to have good marketing discussion.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by riders2010 View Post
            Ok hahahaha I m sorry but that’s
            Lesson 1 of life yes we’re human
            I m talking about the
            Part where you can show me numbers and
            Lines drawn on a paper can tell you what the price
            Any commodity will be tomorrow, next month
            Next year?
            Has anyone shown that in March 2020 they predicted
            22 dollar canola in fall of 2021? That’s the level
            We are at.

            For all you likers of the above post I remember
            Nearly all of you complaining about the so called
            Experts not predicting the market or did you not?
            Was that all balognie? The Burnett’s etc were
            Criticized daily on here what has changed?Lmao!
            The thousands of farmers who locked in those low
            Canola prices and got took to
            The cleaners must have had advice from someone?

            Again I m not against tech analyst posting in fact
            Very welcome him to do so.

            And so based on that 10 minute waste of my life
            Reading that I m a human tell Me what the price of
            Canary canola flax barley wheat will be
            tomorrow, next Friday next month
            March 2022 and then sept 2022! Please
            And thank you in advance! Because that’s what
            This really is all about. The facts.

            The more info the buyers have the lower
            The price they will offer.

            Rider2010 or should I say Big Wheel.

            Burnett didn't predict a price, but he did do a crop tour and say she's a HUGE canola crop which was repeated over and over in the media until about this time last year when OOPS, it wasn't.

            Comment


              #7
              With the fed printing money and QE, govt printing stimulus and people being cult members for a group of stocks that make up 20% of the S&P 500, algos, high speed trading, big hedge funds shorting, fake economic stats etc, I put little faith in tech analysis.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by jazz View Post
                With the fed printing money and QE, govt printing stimulus and people being cult members for a group of stocks that make up 20% of the S&P 500, algos, high speed trading, big hedge funds shorting, fake economic stats etc, I put little faith in tech analysis.
                Absent Fundamental market moving news... Technicals indicators fill in and track the market

                Therefore for historic indicators of past market moves... absent fundamentals past history is predictive to some extent... as humans are creatures of habit and tend to repeat past decisions in the future.

                You know this it seems... R2010 since futures markets project risk profiles... they are helpful in analysis of future valuations of assets. Markets are disciplined by history. You seem to want a crystal ball answer.. not a rational logical answer... dictated by future fundamentals.

                Cheers!

                Comment


                  #9
                  There was no indication in March 2020 that prices would be where they are now.
                  By June 2020 many were starting to pay attention to weather events and by the end of 2020 to trade patterns that set up what we have now.

                  For a producer, the decision to sell or not should always be based on their own circumstances and profit margins.
                  Wouldn't want it any other way

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by LEP View Post
                    Rider2010 or should I say Big Wheel.
                    Thanks for saying it.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by farming101 View Post
                      There was no indication in March 2020 that prices would be where they are now.
                      By June 2020 many were starting to pay attention to weather events and by the end of 2020 to trade patterns that set up what we have now.

                      For a producer, the decision to sell or not should always be based on their own circumstances and profit margins.
                      Wouldn't want it any other way
                      The Pandemic did however introduce fundamental additional shocks/risks to futures markets in March 2020.

                      The history isn't surprising... upon review.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Is the big run up in grain prices more to do with the drought, or with the weakened currency because of all the new dollars printed?

                        Fundamentals only show some of the picture. Massive inrush/exiting of capital is what drives the prices up/down. (think funds). Technicals help to show the movement of money in or out. Problem seem to be that there is a lag between the technicals and the fundamentals (or vice versa) and it is hard to get a good read on far out future prices. Kind of like the weather, decently accurate short term , but not as much accuracy long term.

                        Both fundamentals and technicals are useful tools for marketing, and should be used together. Farmers tend to focus more on production fundamentals and often miss the demand fundamentals, which the technical charts help to show.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by poorboy View Post
                          Is the big run up in grain prices more to do with the drought, or with the weakened currency because of all the new dollars printed?

                          Fundamentals only show some of the picture. Massive inrush/exiting of capital is what drives the prices up/down. (think funds). Technicals help to show the movement of money in or out. Problem seem to be that there is a lag between the technicals and the fundamentals (or vice versa) and it is hard to get a good read on far out future prices. Kind of like the weather, decently accurate short term , but not as much accuracy long term.

                          Both fundamentals and technicals are useful tools for marketing, and should be used together. Farmers tend to focus more on production fundamentals and often miss the demand fundamentals, which the technical charts help to show.
                          With Mar22 Mini Spring Wheat at $10.18 and Dec 22 at $9.12... the northern US and Canadian prairie drought regions are support for all NA wheat markets ...Russia has export taxes to restrict movement...US KC winter wheat regions are dry going into winter... that is a historically high wheat price... the UD$ is also at a recent high level...

                          Comment

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