Gabe Brown

[tubs]

The gabe brown idea takes the manure to the field in the animals. Intensive grazing. Hundreds of thousands of lbs of animals per acre, moving them at least daily. Modifications are made for different areas. Steve Kenyon in Alberta is a good guy to watch as well.

There is so much more to this than a shallow glance. It’s frustrating seeing some of the responses, as it is obvious they aren’t very familiar with the system; it sure is easy to bash it when you don’t have a complete picture.

And that’s ok, it’s not everyone’s cup of tea to have animals.

It’s interesting for sure.

It takes time everyday to do this and lets face it most people don not want to be tied down like that .

[WiltonRanch]

It takes time everyday to do this and lets face it most people don not want to be tied down like that .

That’s the elephant in the room here. You’re tied down especially with rotational grazing. I’ll never go that far. You’re busy year round. Lake, sports, winter homes etc. Not much of that when you have cows.

[Sheepwheat]

It takes time everyday to do this and lets face it most people don not want to be tied down like that .

Precisely. But automation allows for more freedom. Automated gate systems with one wire electric are pretty cool.

Saw a system like that online somewhere. A latch can be set to release the gate at set times.

But you’re right it does mainly come down to the TYPE OF PERSON one is! We’re not all like woodland after all. Lol

[Blaithin]

The gabe brown idea takes the manure to the field in the animals. Intensive grazing. Hundreds of thousands of lbs of animals per acre, moving them at least daily. Modifications are made for different areas. Steve Kenyon in Alberta is a good guy to watch as well.

There is so much more to this than a shallow glance. It’s frustrating seeing some of the responses, as it is obvious they aren’t very familiar with the system; it sure is easy to bash it when you don’t have a complete picture.

And that’s ok, it’s not everyone’s cup of tea to have animals.

It’s interesting for sure.

It’s aggravating.

“I don’t know about it. I don’t understand it. I’m not interested in it. So obvs it won’t work and I’m going to tell everyone how it won’t work.”

Also the classic you don’t know because you live somewhere else and here is different. Always nice to be hit with that. (FYI I grew up in Manitoba ForageFarmer)

Time is the big kicker, I agree Tubs. I don’t have any interest in tying myself to high density, frequent moves. Summer is kind of time off with only weeklyish pasture checks required! The idea of every day or twice a day moves is blah. But the great thing about that sort of model is you do it however you want, your results might to just happen slower.

At the end of the day it’s completely understandable that not everyone wants to invest the time required. It’s completely understandable that not everyone finds it interesting. It’s completely understandable that not everyone’s debt load will allow them to branch out so far from their current business model.

None of these are supportive reasons for “it won’t work here” though. It won’t work for all people true, but it’s a management style that can be tweaked to work pretty much everywhere. The constant flood of people who aren’t interested or understand it that feel they need to tell people who are how silly they are and what a waste of time it is can be very frustrating and discouraging.

Everyone’s got different priorities in their methods.

[WiltonRanch]

With cow herds there’s two types of operators. Those who are cattlemen/cattlewomen and those who keep cows. There’s a certain skill set and personality which separates the two.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

It’s aggravating.

“I don’t know about it. I don’t understand it. I’m not interested in it. So obvs it won’t work and I’m going to tell everyone how it won’t work.”

Also the classic you don’t know because you live somewhere else and here is different. Always nice to be hit with that. (FYI I grew up in Manitoba ForageFarmer)

Time is the big kicker, I agree Tubs. I don’t have any interest in tying myself to high density, frequent moves. Summer is kind of time off with only weeklyish pasture checks required! The idea of every day or twice a day moves is blah. But the great thing about that sort of model is you do it however you want, your results might to just happen slower.

At the end of the day it’s completely understandable that not everyone wants to invest the time required. It’s completely understandable that not everyone finds it interesting. It’s completely understandable that not everyone’s debt load will allow them to branch out so far from their current business model.

None of these are supportive reasons for “it won’t work here” though. It won’t work for all people true, but it’s a management style that can be tweaked to work pretty much everywhere. The constant flood of people who aren’t interested or understand it that feel they need to tell people who are how silly they are and what a waste of time it is can be very frustrating and discouraging.

Everyone’s got different priorities in their methods.

And beyond that, there is the expectation that it has to be all or nothing. In reality, we can take bits and pieces out of every system and improve incrementally. One cross fence and rotating once per years is still better than no cross fence. Having your neighbor feed 50 cows on your stubble for half the winter is still better than no cows on the place

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Precisely. But automation allows for more freedom. Automated gate systems with one wire electric are pretty cool.

Saw a system like that online somewhere. A latch can be set to release the gate at set times.

But you’re right it does mainly come down to the TYPE OF PERSON one is! We’re not all like woodland after all. Lol

And the ultimate in automation will be wireless fences programmed into GPS collars on cows to make rotational grazing effortless. Could graze stubble or potholes etc. without needing fences. IMagine being able to graze all the waste land on some of the really broken up farmland with just a single cow trail betwee them, and no fences to work around. Just audible warning beeps when the cow goes the wrong way, which turns into a shock if she doesn't heed the beeping. Train one cow, and it wouldn't be hard to get the rest to learn the system. Or sheep or goats etc.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Taking this the other direction.
I'm mostly raising grain for animal feed( feed wheat ad feed barley), even half of the canola ends up as meal being fed to an animal.
Yet as I noted above, I can't make the economics of feeding cows directly work at these land and input prices. Yet somehow, I can spend all the fuel and equipment and labour to harvest the grain, and ship it across the province where someone else processes it, maybe trucks it again, and feeds it to livestock.

So, In theory, it should be possible to feed the livestock directly off the land and make even more.

Is anyone doing high input cattle agriculture, and making more per acre than grain?

Seeding the best more productive land for grazing, lots of fertilizer, species that will produce all spring, summer and fall, and stay palatable in the off season, really micro managing the production.

Is it lack of desire to try it, and pour the $'s into grazing land, or is it just not possible to gross the same $ per acre with grass/legumes so we don't do it?

In theory, we can grow some spectacular hay crops out here, 10 bales/acre in one cutting isn't unheard of. What is unheard of is heavy hay crops being put up in good condition so that it is worth anything in the end. It takes so long to cure a heavy crop, that it inevitably is ruined by rains by the time it is baled. Silage and silage bales being great for feeding your own livestock, but not very marketable.

[WiltonRanch]

Taking this the other direction.
I'm mostly raising grain for animal feed( feed wheat ad feed barley), even half of the canola ends up as meal being fed to an animal.
Yet as I noted above, I can't make the economics of feeding cows directly work at these land and input prices. Yet somehow, I can spend all the fuel and equipment and labour to harvest the grain, and ship it across the province where someone else processes it, maybe trucks it again, and feeds it to livestock.

So, In theory, it should be possible to feed the livestock directly off the land and make even more.

Is anyone doing high input cattle agriculture, and making more per acre than grain?

Seeding the best more productive land for grazing, lots of fertilizer, species that will produce all spring, summer and fall, and stay palatable in the off season, really micro managing the production.

Is it lack of desire to try it, and pour the $'s into grazing land, or is it just not possible to gross the same $ per acre with grass/legumes so we don't do it?

In theory, we can grow some spectacular hay crops out here, 10 bales/acre in one cutting isn't unheard of. What is unheard of is heavy hay crops being put up in good condition so that it is worth anything in the end. It takes so long to cure a heavy crop, that it inevitably is ruined by rains by the time it is baled. Silage and silage bales being great for feeding your own livestock, but not very marketable.

I don’t know if you’ve seen or heard of it but there is a confined cattle system called hoop beef. More or less you keep your cattle under roof most of the time. Places like Iowa where land costs are dear and corn stover plentiful people are setting up such systems for feeding calves and even cow-calf. System also touts feed savings from keeping cattle out of adverse weather.

Funny how we discuss doing things like swath grazing and Gabe brown regenerative methods to save money but can pivot and justify high intensity systems which can also be efficient in taking advantage of certain synergies. Agriculture isn’t a one system works for everywhere business.

[Sheepwheat]

Not cattle but with our sheep we gross way better than with grain, and net way, way better than with grain because of minimal inputs. It’s not even remotely comparable. But we are direct marketing as well. Our numbers are the same as if a cattle guy sold his calf at six months of age for $3500 to $4000. I’m sure this would change the whole story.

It’s actually something I can’t get my head around. That ppl insist on cows vs. sheep. Sheep are at least twice as productive per acre $ wise than cows, and that is just using live market values.

I never grossed over two grand an acre with any grain crop I ever grew. That is with direct marketing every lamb though, cut the number in half at live prices. For us, it works. For more it should. But ppl have hang ups for sure.

[Landdownunder]

FYI some cattle prices oz.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Not cattle but with our sheep we gross way better than with grain, and net way, way better than with grain because of minimal inputs. It’s not even remotely comparable. But we are direct marketing as well. Our numbers are the same as if a cattle guy sold his calf at six months of age for $3500 to $4000. I’m sure this would change the whole story.

It’s actually something I can’t get my head around. That ppl insist on cows vs. sheep. Sheep are at least twice as productive per acre $ wise than cows, and that is just using live market values.

I never grossed over two grand an acre with any grain crop I ever grew. That is with direct marketing every lamb though, cut the number in half at live prices. For us, it works. For more it should. But ppl have hang ups for sure.

I'm sold on the economics of sheep farming. In fact, our grade 7 teacher was an avid sheep farmer and we had to do a project on the economics of our own mythical sheep farm.

I have a hang up with direct marketing. I'm not a people person, I have no patience for travelling around trying to find customers, or spending a day at a farmers market etc. when there are jobs to be done at the farm. I'm not a salesman. That doesn't mean that one couldn't find a partner who does posess those skills.
And it is a niche market. It appears that you have created a market, and are exploiting it to the fullest. But if a handful of producers all decide to join you, the niche market will get crowded in a hurry. I always assume that I will be the straw that breaks the camels back if I jump in.

And how do you deal with the predators? Sheep have a bad habit of becoming coyote supper around here, Or Wolf, or cougar, not sure about the bears?