Gabe Brown

[Blaithin]

Lots of farmers make more off of YouTube than their crops. Doesn’t mean I don’t think I can learn anything from them about arable farming.

As with anything scientific you can find scientists that can back up any ideas. Dr Yamily Zavada is a great local one working with CARA. Dr Kris Nichols is another well known scientist that does lots of speaking across Alberta. Either have (what I would consider) great ideas about diversity within the plant stand, biological soil properties, soil microbiology and root structure, among other things, and how they contribute to soil health and fertility.

But perhaps their science is the wrong kind to be considered science? I should take the time to read more dissenting science views until I change my mind?

[WiltonRanch]

Lots of farmers make more off of YouTube than their crops. Doesn’t mean I don’t think I can learn anything from them about arable farming.

As with anything scientific you can find scientists that can back up any ideas. Dr Yamily Zavada is a great local one working with CARA. Dr Kris Nichols is another well known scientist that does lots of speaking across Alberta. Either have (what I would consider) great ideas about diversity within the plant stand, biological soil properties, soil microbiology and root structure, among other things, and how they contribute to soil health and fertility.

But perhaps their science is the wrong kind to be considered science? I should take the time to read more dissenting science views until I change my mind?

Exactly. I’d hope I’m critical enough to know fact from fantasy. That said, a lot of science can become focused on one aspect and not be broad based enough to see merits. Humans do best when they focus on one thing. Good graziers and good grain farmers will know different but pertinent things that lies beneath their feet. Bridging the gap will give everyone a greater understanding as long as both sides don’t get their hackles up. Some of what Gabe says is hard to believe like some of the gurus in the cattlemen magazine. We all talk and find about these guys through the g****vine as to how their systems work. A lot of what agronomists tell you is usually correct but if they’re working for the input supplier I take it with a grain of salt as well. All this said I’ve learned from them all and have applied some of these things with varying degrees of success. Farming entails a lot of experimentation. More so than the scientific community lol. It’s a survival mechanism.

[Sheepwheat]

You don't have to look very deep to know a lot of what he says is for a fantastic speaking fee. He has made far more on book sales and speaking then cows.

There have been plenty of soil science rebuttals if you take the time to read them. But then science has never been that strong with this crowd.

Trampling massive amounts of plant material and manure into the soil is bad according to what science?

[WiltonRanch]

You don't have to look very deep to know a lot of what he says is for a fantastic speaking fee. He has made far more on book sales and speaking then cows.

There have been plenty of soil science rebuttals if you take the time to read them. But then science has never been that strong with this crowd.

Don’t mind your dissenting view here. I have respect for educated people like you. However, being a sanctimonious ass does nothing to add to the conversation. Please paraphrase, give a link to such rebuttals or even a title. We are all not knuckle draggers or uneducated.

[foragefarmer]

I think you have it backwards. At least according to Gabe Brown himself, his goal is the least amount of labour, not to make it more labour intensive. Not feeding livestock all winter, not processing them for vaccines, not adding supplements, not seeding, fertilizing, spraying, cutting, baling, hauling, stacking, processing, hauling manure back out, not baby sitting calving cows etc. More production off less acres, therefore less trucking cattle or feed all over, etc.
There is a good reason why he has time to go on the speaker circuit.

And I have conversed with Gabe in the past. Much respect for his approach. A lot of good ideas, many of which could apply to most operations and climates with some tweaking.

Made to sound so easy, yet poster after poster on Agriville said they didn't want to be tied down with cattle. According to your post and Gabe's words running a cow calf operation in Western Canada shouldn't be labor intense at all. Let cattle look after them selves the whole year.

Just a question to all the cow calf guys on Agriville according to the messenger of Gabe's word why do you still have farm equipment. Sounds like running a cow calf operation is a sure money maker, just look at Gabe's operation. Why are all of incurring all extra expenses of running your cow calf operations? Why are there not more farmers with cow calf operation rather then less in Western Canada.

And why are you vaccinating your cattle for Blackleg and other diseases. ( oh here we go again don't want to rile up the anti vaxxers on Agriville) just remember we're talking about cattle now.

Do have haying equipment on your farm AB5 can't recall if you have cow calf operation or not.

[Blaithin]

Made to sound so easy, yet poster after poster on Agriville said they didn't want to be tied down with cattle. According to your post and Gabe's words running a cow calf operation in Western Canada shouldn't be labor intense at all. Let cattle look after them selves the whole year.

Just a question to all the cow calf guys on Agriville according to the messenger of Gabe's word why do you still have farm equipment. Sounds like running a cow calf operation is a sure money maker, just look at Gabe's operation. Why are all of incurring all extra expenses of running your cow calf operations? Why are there not more farmers with cow calf operation rather then less in Western Canada.

And why are you vaccinating your cattle for Blackleg and other diseases. ( oh here we go again don't want to rile up the anti vaxxers on Agriville) just remember we're talking about cattle now.

Do have haying equipment on your farm AB5 can't recall if you have cow calf operation or not.

You’re very set on jumping to extremes as examples of why this kind of farming must be a bad idea?

I’ll address the “tied down to cattle” comment since I said it bluntly, although apparently not clearly enough for you.

Rotating cows is not terribly labour intensive. When I said I like having the summer for weeklyish checks it wasn’t about it being too labour intense. Moving cattle used to rotation doesn’t tend to take more than half an hour. It’s just that in summer it’s nice to leave for a couple days and not need to be home for that half an hour. This can be addressed by some technologies that have been mentioned on this thread. Gate timers, GPS collars. It’s fast approaching that people can move their cows without going to the herd.

Similar with many winter feeding set ups. Labour for a day a week to get it organized, then daily chores lean towards a half hour spent opening a gate or cutting some twine. Again not terribly labour intensive like getting all the equipment running to mix up a truck full of TMR and drive it out multiple times every day.

I also think this thread has addressed why cow calf and cattle in general are struggling. It’s included many posts by producers with various livestock saying which ideas they like and where they see livestock helping and being productive within the scheme of Western Canadian Ag.

I just have to wonder why you seem so determined to mock the ideas and make producers sound like they’re being idiots for trying? Should we all just sell the cows?

[WiltonRanch]

Forage is using “straw man” arguments again.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Forage is using “straw man” arguments again.

He learned from the best. Funny that Chuck has nothing to contribute to these ag related threads.

[foragefarmer]

Forage is using “straw man” arguments again.

I'm thinking your taking a jab at me for supplying straw to several cow calf guys who I highly value as customers. They seem to be using haying equipment, I'll have to ask them about Gabe.

I know we agree on one thing for sure regarding vaccinating cattle

"Mining is mining and I have an acute disdain for those who don’t vaccinate their herds and spread their stupid diseases around the country."

So in what way were you referring me to as a "straw man"

AB5 nice diversion, always bringing up Chuck when your running out of steam. Anti Chuck crowd will still love you

[Blaithin]

What has he run out of steam on?!? 🧐😂😂

[AlbertaFarmer5]

In response to forage.
Yes, we have cattle. Trying to get out, have been unsuccessfully trying to be out of the cattle business for about 14 years now... Over 300 back in the good old days of BSE. 100ish in recent years, and just bred heifers and a few cows here as of the past year.

My goal is to burn as little diesel fuel as possible to feed cows, and to feed them anything but marketable hay or grain.
Part of the reason why I have not succeeded in getting out of cows, is that we have ended up with feed that needed to be used, frozen canola, hailed barley, etc. year after year, or else the cows weren't worth anything. Generally don't start feeding until sometime in December. December 1st this year, has been as late as New Years. Have done swath grazing in the past, but the economics don't work at these land values.

I feed as rarely as once per week. Fill hay feeders with various qualities of hay, set up lots of portable windbreaks and straw bales for them to spread as bedding, all on whatever piece of ground needs the manure most, and has access to water. The bedding and windbreaks keeps them where I want, and away from the trees where I don't need manure. When I was going to University, I fed Sunday night and again Saturday morning, not exactly tied down to them. Doesn't take much fuel to drop 20 bales into hay feeders and take twines off by hand. Often hauled straight from the field to the feeders. Mostly using a 60 HP open station almost 60 year old tractor. When we put up silage to salvage a crop, I fence off the pile, set feeders up across from the fence and scoop it directly from the pile into the feeder with the track hoe. Takes a few minutes, and a tank of fuel lasts all winter.

Recently upgraded haying equipment, full line up still worth~ $10000. Ironically, doing less hay than ever with this "modern" equipment, maybe 500 bales total this year, the most I did in recent times was 3000 on a year with farm wide hail. With a 35 year old baler at the time, and an even older tractor pulling it.

I refuse to invest money into cattle equipment. They are here to convert unmarketable products, or unfarmable land into income. They only pasture land completley unfit for cultivation, and as of this year, I only hay land much to wet for farming. I aim for zero yardage costs, and come close.

This year they are actually getting to eat hay bales, which is rare, almost all slough/pasture hay, and year old bales. Most years I sell the good hay and feed anything but. In 2018 with expensive hay, I didn't feed a bale, sold it all.

Moving cows consists of opening a gate and calling them, with a couple of longer moves down/across roads. Don't own a stock trailer. Most feeders, gates, sheds, panels, squeezes, barn are home made or repurposed.
There is profit in cattle this way. But everyone else I know seems to need new MFWD tractors, balers, discbines, rotary rakes, bale processors, stock trailer, dually diesel, handling facilities worth more than all my equipment put together, side by sides, expensive heifers and even more expensive bulls, barns, and they can only eat hay, regardless of the cost. And they complain a lot that there is no profit in cattle.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

AB5 nice diversion, always bringing up Chuck when your running out of steam. Anti Chuck crowd will still love you

Out of curiosity, is there a pro Chuck crowd?

And how big is it? Must be a very exclusive club.