Atypical BSE

[GDR]

It’s supposed too. I know at feedlots all animals are scanned at arrival. I believe they also are at auction marts?

I can sign into my CCIA account and it tells me when an animal I had has been terminated or whatever word it uses. I can’t see the trail of where it went from here but I can see it’s been slaughtered or died.

Dont believe those scanning records get uploaded to ccia, only at slaughterhouses. If there is a problem they will come back to you and you need to provide details of exit from your operation. No one does it I realize but you are supposed to keep records of every movement of the ccia number off your homestead premises ID, and therefore they need tagged before movement. Even going to pasture across the road or to the vet or whatever.

Like the question of tagging a mature bull on the way to market, we all do that but technically they are to be tagged on birth farm and when tags are lost they are to be retagged and recorded as such.

Out of simplicity I tag all my calves at birth but do not replace a lost tag till they are getting their last trailer ride to town. I would bet the chance of an aged cow to still have it's original tag from birth is 25% or less. System sucks but guess the charade makes the world feel safe and accept our beef?

This current BSE cow is not an issue to markets at all.

[bucket]

I do wish the tag numbers as the cow or calf gets slaughtered would be deleted off the database.

I look at the tags I have bought since it started and can't legitimately delete them as the retained heifers with one of those tags could still be on the farm.

IMHO once the animal hits the slaughter, that tag should be off file.

You would think the database would be allowed to do that.

[Blaithin]

I think the program has got better IF you do the record keeping in an organized way. I don’t Lol But I only have a small number so I could theoretically go through and know which ones went where and stayed. The ones that have been slaughtered go bright red I believe, on the CCIA site, so it wouldn’t be hard to translate that to ones own records.

Shtferbrains, I can’t do a mature bull here, no. However if I take any stock to the auction and they don’t have RFID tags then the auction charges to install them. (I’m skeptical the auction actually does this, they just charge for it) Now if the auctions actually started doing this, or do do it, then the records should technically trace back to me anyway.

Similar to GDR I tag everything as calves when I can easily do it. Periodically they lose the tag so I then retag if and when I need too. If their original tag has already been input into the system then I can link the new tag to the old tag. If I haven’t uploaded anything then I just put the new tag in and it’s like the old tag never got used.

It also seems to be a very common practice in private sales of sending a button in a bag along with any animal bought. Which is probably exactly how the CFIA prefer they be used hahaha……

[mcfarms]

Dont believe those scanning records get uploaded to ccia, only at slaughterhouses. If there is a problem they will come back to you and you need to provide details of exit from your operation. No one does it I realize but you are supposed to keep records of every movement of the ccia number off your homestead premises ID, and therefore they need tagged before movement. Even going to pasture across the road or to the vet or whatever.

Like the question of tagging a mature bull on the way to market, we all do that but technically they are to be tagged on birth farm and when tags are lost they are to be retagged and recorded as such.

Out of simplicity I tag all my calves at birth but do not replace a lost tag till they are getting their last trailer ride to town. I would bet the chance of an aged cow to still have it's original tag from birth is 25% or less. System sucks but guess the charade makes the world feel safe and accept our beef?

This current BSE cow is not an issue to markets at all.

We track all pasture and other moves as anyone who is certified under the verified beef production program tracks each movement , even pasture moves. We have a simple google forms program that whoever is doing the move or treatment can enter the information into their smartphone quickly and easily and it is immediately in our database in the office. very easy to do. works well for tracking data and looking back at incidents or simple things like bull turn outs and pull dates. We track calving , vaccination deaths and other stats with 4 varied electronic forms each of which is quick to do as they have a series of questions with drop down menus, the time and date of entry is automatically captured by google forms. . As far as tags we've taken it another step as the plastic in the tags are so poor and retention rates are varied, each cow on our farm is freeze branded as a heifer with a simple 4 digit code that allows us to quickly replace any lost tags either RFID or dangle and maintain traceability. One friend uses florescent tatoo ink to do the same thing, but he can't drive by and tell you how old a cow is without running her through the chute we can.

[GDR]

We track all pasture and other moves as anyone who is certified under the verified beef production program tracks each movement , even pasture moves. We have a simple google forms program that whoever is doing the move or treatment can enter the information into their smartphone quickly and easily and it is immediately in our database in the office. very easy to do. works well for tracking data and looking back at incidents or simple things like bull turn outs and pull dates. We track calving , vaccination deaths and other stats with 4 varied electronic forms each of which is quick to do as they have a series of questions with drop down menus, the time and date of entry is automatically captured by google forms. . As far as tags we've taken it another step as the plastic in the tags are so poor and retention rates are varied, each cow on our farm is freeze branded as a heifer with a simple 4 digit code that allows us to quickly replace any lost tags either RFID or dangle and maintain traceability. One friend uses florescent tatoo ink to do the same thing, but he can't drive by and tell you how old a cow is without running her through the chute we can.

Have you been able to secure any higher prices as a result of the verified beef program? I assume to capitalize you would either have to make a private calf sale or sell as fat cattle direct to a specific packer?

I like the freeze brand idea, does that present any confusion with the brand inspectors?

[woodland]

We track all pasture and other moves as anyone who is certified under the verified beef production program tracks each movement , even pasture moves. We have a simple google forms program that whoever is doing the move or treatment can enter the information into their smartphone quickly and easily and it is immediately in our database in the office. very easy to do. works well for tracking data and looking back at incidents or simple things like bull turn outs and pull dates. We track calving , vaccination deaths and other stats with 4 varied electronic forms each of which is quick to do as they have a series of questions with drop down menus, the time and date of entry is automatically captured by google forms. . As far as tags we've taken it another step as the plastic in the tags are so poor and retention rates are varied, each cow on our farm is freeze branded as a heifer with a simple 4 digit code that allows us to quickly replace any lost tags either RFID or dangle and maintain traceability. One friend uses florescent tatoo ink to do the same thing, but he can't drive by and tell you how old a cow is without running her through the chute we can.

Mcfarms we’ve thought about freeze branding for id just like you do but haven’t because of how much time per animal it might take. Currently using boc loc brisket tags and quite happy with their retention. How much time does it take to freeze brand four digits from start to finish? Are you using alcohol or nitrogen?
Just curious. Thanks🍀

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Speaking of atypical BSE, does anyone remember the name of the person who postulated that the BSE found in Alberta last time was spontaneous, as a result of environmental factors. Copper I think was one of them. I tried to search it but nothing came up. I do recall that he passed away quite a few years ago.

[mcfarms]

Mcfarms we’ve thought about freeze branding for id just like you do but haven’t because of how much time per animal it might take. Currently using boc loc brisket tags and quite happy with their retention. How much time does it take to freeze brand four digits from start to finish? Are you using alcohol or nitrogen?
Just curious. Thanks🍀

We are using Dry Ice and alcohol, have 2 sets of numbers and 1 custom Brand , Its a process for sure to shave and blow off the animal 5 to 6 mins I suppose usually 2 people doing it . we like the L and H irons we got out of ND the best.
Not all will take the time to do it because it is time consuming but so much easier to track ages and know whos who in the zoo when the tags fall out which they seem to be worse and worse for. I did see a new RFID tag coming with a metal tag though that may last better. We are also do any new bulls as its also good to know their ages and ID for who goes where because bulls are even worse for tag retention .

https://lhbrandingirons.com/content/L-H%20Freeze%20Instructions.pdf

[Blaithin]

Speaking of atypical BSE, does anyone remember the name of the person who postulated that the BSE found in Alberta last time was spontaneous, as a result of environmental factors. Copper I think was one of them. I tried to search it but nothing came up. I do recall that he passed away quite a few years ago.

The 2015 one? I thought that was traced to her being old from before the stricter feed ban. I don't recall it being the spontaneous, atypical strain.

I've never heard of it being caused by anything environmental. But then again most of the cases I've heard of it are all from the States. They don't seem to ever have BSE from feed, except from cattle traced back to Canada, all their home ground cases are spontaneous.

Would be interesting to see what does increase chances of it.

[WiltonRanch]

I think the program has got better IF you do the record keeping in an organized way. I don’t Lol But I only have a small number so I could theoretically go through and know which ones went where and stayed. The ones that have been slaughtered go bright red I believe, on the CCIA site, so it wouldn’t be hard to translate that to ones own records.

Shtferbrains, I can’t do a mature bull here, no. However if I take any stock to the auction and they don’t have RFID tags then the auction charges to install them. (I’m skeptical the auction actually does this, they just charge for it) Now if the auctions actually started doing this, or do do it, then the records should technically trace back to me anyway.

Similar to GDR I tag everything as calves when I can easily do it. Periodically they lose the tag so I then retag if and when I need too. If their original tag has already been input into the system then I can link the new tag to the old tag. If I haven’t uploaded anything then I just put the new tag in and it’s like the old tag never got used.

It also seems to be a very common practice in private sales of sending a button in a bag along with any animal bought. Which is probably exactly how the CFIA prefer they be used hahaha……

Reminds me of working in the yards years ago. We were diligent to tag the untagged. Even the worst bulls (only good thing about a Paysen squeeze). Most memorable tag job was a calf with no ears. The owners were good enough to attach the tag and button on a bale twine around its neck.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

The 2015 one? I thought that was traced to her being old from before the stricter feed ban. I don't recall it being the spontaneous, atypical strain.

I've never heard of it being caused by anything environmental. But then again most of the cases I've heard of it are all from the States. They don't seem to ever have BSE from feed, except from cattle traced back to Canada, all their home ground cases are spontaneous.

Would be interesting to see what does increase chances of it.

No, this goes back to the 2003 cases. I believe he was in or from Alberta, did a lot of research in both wild animals and cattle, and concluded that the misfolded prions were a result of copper deficiency, allowing Manganese to take the place of copper. His theory also revolved around sonic booms or similar such as from the weapons test range where many of the wild cases of CWD were found.

He was in the news at the time, but I can't find anything now. Died shortly after as I recall.

[WiltonRanch]

No, this goes back to the 2003 cases. I believe he was in or from Alberta, did a lot of research in both wild animals and cattle, and concluded that the misfolded prions were a result of copper deficiency, allowing Manganese to take the place of copper. His theory also revolved around sonic booms or similar such as from the weapons test range where many of the wild cases of CWD were found.

He was in the news at the time, but I can't find anything now. Died shortly after as I recall.

Mark Purdy was his name. He was on a bit of a speaking tour with his theory. Could be plausible I suppose. I’m not a scientist though. Sonic booms though that’s not believable but neither is a lot of stuff we hear. Only thing a sonic boom has been proven is to cause charolais cattle to run through fences, simmentals to jump over, angus to wiggle through and Herefords prolapse. 😁

[mcfarms]

Have you been able to secure any higher prices as a result of the verified beef program? I assume to capitalize you would either have to make a private calf sale or sell as fat cattle direct to a specific packer?

I like the freeze brand idea, does that present any confusion with the brand inspectors?

Sorry I missed your question , our brand is freeze branded in its proper location no comment from Brand ins. as of yet.
Not really happy with number of animals being processed through the verified channel but we do sell them in the fall and can't control the buyer. that is being discussed for 22 we may change sale route and go directly to a VBP+ feedlot been pretty unimpressed with the local auction mart the last few years also as they are asleep with where our industry has to go, we have had some discussions about a VBP specific sale or something online we will see. As far as I'm concerned I believe this is the way we have to go in this industry for future consumer buy in, we are probably more unhappy though about lack of carcass data being fed back to us by the system as we were hoping to get that from the program and the rest of the chain has not been doing their part of what we feel they need to do in order to improve the end product to consumers and maintain consumer confidence.
The premium is supposed to come from the end user but right now Cargill is the only plant that is paying so if they end up in Brooks you get nothing.

[GDR]

Sorry I missed your question , our brand is freeze branded in its proper location no comment from Brand ins. as of yet.
Not really happy with number of animals being processed through the verified channel but we do sell them in the fall and can't control the buyer. that is being discussed for 22 we may change sale route and go directly to a VBP+ feedlot been pretty unimpressed with the local auction mart the last few years also as they are asleep with where our industry has to go, we have had some discussions about a VBP specific sale or something online we will see. As far as I'm concerned I believe this is the way we have to go in this industry for future consumer buy in, we are probably more unhappy though about lack of carcass data being fed back to us by the system as we were hoping to get that from the program and the rest of the chain has not been doing their part of what we feel they need to do in order to improve the end product to consumers and maintain consumer confidence.
The premium is supposed to come from the end user but right now Cargill is the only plant that is paying so if they end up in Brooks you get nothing.

I have never heard at the auction marts close here any mention of VBP on regards to calf sales, that's why I asked. What sort of premium at cargil a cent or 2? Carcass data would always be interesting but might be an eye opener for lots of guys. Hair color not as good of a grading factor as most calf buyers think.

Not being critical of what you are doing at all but I'm basically against programs like this even though most components are really part of general beef stewardship. The problem is that for the first time period there is a premium until adoption gets mainstream, then price settles back down and ends up being a discount for non followers instead of a premium for the guys on board. More work for nothing. Then the goal posts get moved and the cycle starts all over again.

[WiltonRanch]

I have never heard at the auction marts close here any mention of VBP on regards to calf sales, that's why I asked. What sort of premium at cargil a cent or 2? Carcass data would always be interesting but might be an eye opener for lots of guys. Hair color not as good of a grading factor as most calf buyers think.

Not being critical of what you are doing at all but I'm basically against programs like this even though most components are really part of general beef stewardship. The problem is that for the first time period there is a premium until adoption gets mainstream, then price settles back down and ends up being a discount for non followers instead of a premium for the guys on board. More work for nothing. Then the goal posts get moved and the cycle starts all over again.

Yes. My thoughts too when age verification came out I did it loyally for a few years and soon forgot about it when it wasn’t necessary. All these things like vbp, the grid, preconditioned calves, natural beef, angus tags it’s all great till one paying extra for it forgets about it. I don’t think it’s a premium before mainstream but a premium until money isn’t there. Too much government meddling and cows disappear. I have no time or desire to mess with this stuff