US Grid Battery Storage

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Chuck doesn't understand the US at all.

Now that is the understatement of the year.

But you have two redundant words.

You could remove the words the, and US, and the sentence would still be true.

What the heck does Donald Trump have to do with a thread about energy storage?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Just for perspective, since these big numbers always sound so impressive with nothing to compare to. Here is what the stated(in Toms article) 1GW of storage looks like compared to all Electricity production in the US. Total would be 16 GW by next year as per the article. 16 times bigger still wouldn't even be visible in the big picture.


And keep in mind that this is only electricity generation. Total energy use in the US is about 3 times bigger, and the zero emissions scenarios involve converting all of that to electric as well.

The saying a drop in the ocean doesn't even come close to giving this justice.

But uninformed ignorant twits such as Agrivilles own cheerleader will keep proclaiming that we will just install more storage and solve all the problems with intermittent.

At best, current storage technologies are barely adequate to give a few seconds or minutes of breathing room so load shedding can take place before the entire grid collapses. Load shedding basically meaning that they will shut off the power to us peasants to bring supply and demand back into balance.

[chuckChuck]

Toms article said nothing about the amount of renewable storage needed to replace current generation. That would be a massive impossible change. Its never going to be our sole source of electricity.

But that doesn't mean it won't be used. EVs alone will have a significant impact on storage.

The International Energy Agency has lots of analysis on energy issues, renewable sources and storage.

https://www.iea.org/news/renewable-electricity-growth-is-accelerating-faster-than-ever-worldwide-supporting-the-emergence-of-the-new-global-energy-economy

"By 2026, global renewable electricity capacity is forecast to rise more than 60% from 2020 levels to over 4 800 GW – equivalent to the current total global power capacity of fossil fuels and nuclear combined. Renewables are set to account for almost 95% of the increase in global power capacity through 2026, with solar PV alone providing more than half. The amount of renewable capacity added over the period of 2021 to 2026 is expected to be 50% higher than from 2015 to 2020. This is driven by stronger support from government policies and more ambitious clean energy goals announced before and during the COP26 Climate Change Conference.

“This year’s record renewable electricity additions of 290 gigawatts are yet another sign that a new global energy economy is emerging,” said IEA Executive Director Fatih Birol. “The high commodity and energy prices we are seeing today pose new challenges for the renewable industry, but elevated fossil fuel prices also make renewables even more competitive.”

The growth of renewables is forecast to increase in all regions compared with the 2015-2020 period. China remains the global leader in the volume of capacity additions: it is expected to reach 1200 GW of total wind and solar capacity in 2026 – four years earlier than its current target of 2030. India is set to come top in terms of the rate of growth, doubling new installations compared with 2015-2020. Deployments in Europe and the United States are also on track to speed up significantly from the previous five years. These four markets together account for 80% of renewable capacity expansion worldwide."

[Hamloc]

Toms article said nothing about the amount of renewable storage needed to replace current generation. That would be a massive impossible change. Its never going to be our sole source of electricity.

But that doesn't mean it won't be used. EVs alone will have a significant impact on storage.

The International Energy Agency has lots of analysis on energy issues, renewable sources and storage.

https://www.iea.org/news/renewable-electricity-growth-is-accelerating-faster-than-ever-worldwide-supporting-the-emergence-of-the-new-global-energy-economy

"By 2026, global renewable electricity capacity is forecast to rise more than 60% from 2020 levels to over 4 800 GW – equivalent to the current total global power capacity of fossil fuels and nuclear combined. Renewables are set to account for almost 95% of the increase in global power capacity through 2026, with solar PV alone providing more than half. The amount of renewable capacity added over the period of 2021 to 2026 is expected to be 50% higher than from 2015 to 2020. This is driven by stronger support from government policies and more ambitious clean energy goals announced before and during the COP26 Climate Change Conference.

“This year’s record renewable electricity additions of 290 gigawatts are yet another sign that a new global energy economy is emerging,” said IEA Executive Director Fatih Birol. “The high commodity and energy prices we are seeing today pose new challenges for the renewable industry, but elevated fossil fuel prices also make renewables even more competitive.”

The growth of renewables is forecast to increase in all regions compared with the 2015-2020 period. China remains the global leader in the volume of capacity additions: it is expected to reach 1200 GW of total wind and solar capacity in 2026 – four years earlier than its current target of 2030. India is set to come top in terms of the rate of growth, doubling new installations compared with 2015-2020. Deployments in Europe and the United States are also on track to speed up significantly from the previous five years. These four markets together account for 80% of renewable capacity expansion worldwide."

On Reuters: “Analysis: Weak winds worsened Europe’s power crunch; utilities need better storage.”

From the article” Europe’s largest wind producers Britain, Germany and Denmark harnessed just 14% of installed capacity, in the third quarter, when gas prices hit record highs, compared with an average of 20-26% seen in previous years, according to Refinitiv data.”

“It will become common for the electricity market in Europe to have a very high degree of volatility because that will be the nature of the assets that we are bringing online and the nature of assets we are taking offline.”

“In order to get commercial investments going into different kind of storage, like batteries, the market needs to give that price signal. There needs to be volatility and the stronger the price signal is, the more investment we will see.”

“Hopefully, the politicians have seen these price extremes over the last few months and will do the tally and then realize that probably we need to push for even more green energy and then figure out how we solve the problem of intermittency.”

Fml, the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result!

[shtferbrains]

I wounder if waiting for wind and sun to see if you have heat and power is something like hoping for the right amount of rain?

I guess we could all install pivots as a back up. You can solve anything if you just keep printing money.

[TOM4CWB]

On Reuters: “Analysis: Weak winds worsened Europe’s power crunch; utilities need better storage.”

From the article” Europe’s largest wind producers Britain, Germany and Denmark harnessed just 14% of installed capacity, in the third quarter, when gas prices hit record highs, compared with an average of 20-26% seen in previous years, according to Refinitiv data.”

“It will become common for the electricity market in Europe to have a very high degree of volatility because that will be the nature of the assets that we are bringing online and the nature of assets we are taking offline.”

“In order to get commercial investments going into different kind of storage, like batteries, the market needs to give that price signal. There needs to be volatility and the stronger the price signal is, the more investment we will see.”

“Hopefully, the politicians have seen these price extremes over the last few months and will do the tally and then realize that probably we need to push for even more green energy and then figure out how we solve the problem of intermittency.”

Fml, the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result!

One big problem is that economics [instead gov regulation] are not driving the 'renewable electrical energy generation systems'. A mish mash of various levels of governments are involved... distribution of electricity is also a one pony deal without choices to keep costs down. FF energy on the other hand had been competitive till taxes messed that up in transport fuel especially. NH3 could be an interesting fuel if an economic way to generate ammonium can be implemented [as water and air are the needed ingredients]

As we tap the Phosphate in waste streams ammonium could be recovered as well.

Cheers

[AlbertaFarmer5]

[QUOTE=chuckChuck;522013 That would be a massive impossible change. Its never going to be our sole source of electricity.

[/QUOTE]Well said. But that is not what our politicians are saying.
So, in your own words, what do you think is going to be our source electricity when we achieve net zero?
Without contradicting yourself, or the NFU, or the environmentalists.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

“Hopefully, the politicians have seen these price extremes over the last few months and will do the tally and then realize that probably we need to push for even more green energy and then figure out how we solve the problem of intermittency.”

Hamloc, you need to quit posting quotes from the Babylon Bee, and pretending that it is a reputable news source. You know how upset Chuck gets when we use unreliable sources that post paraodies of the news, such as the example above.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't true.

This would be the equivalent of suggeting that we all need to plant this new crop. There is no equipment capable of harvesting it, no way to store it if we did, and no market for it even if we could harvest it. But we need to push for growing even more of it, and figure out how to solve the harvest, storage and marketing problems afterwards.
Good thing the customers of utilities and tax payers have unlimited money to sponsor these hair brained schemes.

[Hamloc]

Hamloc, you need to quit posting quotes from the Babylon Bee, and pretending that it is a reputable news source. You know how upset Chuck gets when we use unreliable sources that post paraodies of the news, such as the example above.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't true.

This would be the equivalent of suggeting that we all need to plant this new crop. There is no equipment capable of harvesting it, no way to store it if we did, and no market for it even if we could harvest it. But we need to push for growing even more of it, and figure out how to solve the harvest, storage and marketing problems afterwards.
Good thing the customers of utilities and tax payers have unlimited money to sponsor these hair brained schemes.

Here is another article from Bloomberg on the Financial post today: “Europe’s power crunch shuts down factories as price hits record.” But of course this is the fault of the rise in the cost of fossil fuels, nothing to do with bad government policy and poor planning lol!

[Hamloc]

Ah what a cold Christmas morning. As I eat breakfast I check the weather, -26 with a -35 windchill, I do love this global warming lol. So just for fun I pull up the AESO supply demand page on my tablet, what a surprise out of a possible 2269 megawatts of generation Alberta’s wind farms are generating 65 megawatts of electricity. I am very thankful for natural gas and coal, as they are generating 90% of our electricity this morning. Anyway it won’t be long before the grandkids arrive, have a Merry Christmas and remember if your Christmas tree lights were powered by wind and solar your tree would be dark! And for Chuck lol!