US Grid Battery Storage

[chuckChuck]

Nice try A5. They are working fine and are high quality panels and inverters. You better swap out all the chinese electronic components out of your vehicles and farm equipment before they fail! LOL

It wasn't that long ago you tried to claim that I was not a farmer and don't have solar panels.

[Landdownunder]

Do you really think the Chinese can't build quality products?

If you look at all the stuff you own you would be surprised by how much of it is made in China whether parts or consumer items.

They can build to high specifications. But the Walmarts of the world want cheap crap to sell at a good profit.

Could be different over there. Always deemed here European solar far superior but has to be be way more expensive. There is a lot of cheap and nasty solar stuff here. 3 yrs is worst I’ve heard. Bought a dishwasher maybe 6 months ago Bosch. Two choices of seemingly same spec dishwasher one German one Chinese both branded Bosch same number but one had a e I think in model number and 20% more expensive asked why he said one made in Germany German components one Chinese. Bought German. It’s not that hard go out of my way to buy non Chinese. Aircon to keep house cool again choice Japanese or Chinese went jap. But yes of course I have Chinese stuff here I’m not a complete gob. Other think I could be wrong about is truth in labelling say made manufactured in such and such a country I believe it rightly or wronhly

[Landdownunder]

Other issue there finally working out is recycling of solar components.

Quality more expensive systems are almost up to 90 plus % recyclable.

Cheap and nasty one ones a grey area.

I’m not anti fossil fuel or a cl8mate change gammon.

Common sense just waited till correct time for solar.

Someone ask feed in tariff/rebate what ever. Around the 7 to 8c a kWh. Some dodgy figures about some pay more tariff at certain times of the day.

a
household with solar panels may produce 16kWh of electricity on a sunny day.
If the household consumes 10kWh of this electricity, the remaining 6kWh will be exported into the grid in return for Tarif of 8 cents.

So makes pardon the pun sense here in oz to get a battery. Over abundance of solar going back in. Normal power dropp8ng as well.

I’m no expert and spelling iPad ain’t improved.

Think peak tariff might have been as high as 60 cents per kWh about 20 yrs ago but then solar systems way more expensive back then. The ole pea and thimble.

Nuclear will be a game changer in our state if it ever happens. Think we’ve got something ridiculous like 15% even more of worlds uranium. Gets mined goes to France they convert it into electricity 😔

[Landdownunder]

Dinks. Double income no kids.

Friends in city put solar on about 5 years ago. Got to work at 7.30 get home at 6 in evening.

Why didn’t my power bill come down??

Didn’t take em long to work out we’re not home to use the cheaper power and tariff didn’t cover it.

So those rare cases lose out.

Talk is tariff will be completely phased out by 2030 or my state anyway.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Speaking of California, it seems they have finally belatedly accepted that they have reached the breaking point.
he new rule would cut the rate solar customers get for selling their excess energy by a fair chunk. The rate will decline to 3 to 4 cents per kilowatt-hour during most sunny hours of the day, down from 17 to 44 cents per kWh previously, according to estimates from Pol Lezcano, North America solar analyst at BloombergNEF.
in California. Its solar-heavy grid has an abundance of electricity during daylight hours but a steep drop once the sun sets. That creates strains. Hawaii, which saw furious growth in rooftop solar before getting rid of net metering in 2015, had to do so largely out of necessity—parts of its grid were overwhelmed by a surge of solar electricity generated during the day.
What does that do for your payback period Chuck?
In our climate and latitude with solar completely put of sync with demand, we would reach this breaking point at far lower penetrations than California did.

More on this.
it would jack up electricity bills for rooftop solar owners to double or triple what they are now. In addition to cutting the “net metering” credit that solar users get paid when they sell their power back to the grid, the CPUC is also proposing a $57 monthly fee for people who install solar.
There is no free lunch.
And California certainly isn't an anomaly or the exception, this is the inevitable outcome.
At some point, solar panels which you considered to be an asset but in reality are a liability to the rest of society, will become a liability to the owner. There will be no market to sell solar back during daylight hours, and prices will be so high to buy it back in the dark it will be cost prohibitive. Then add in fees such as the above, as utilities are forced to acknowledge the true costs that intermittent download onto the grid.
As long as you include all of these inevitable consequences into the budget for installing solar panels, then carry on.

[wrongway]

More on this.
it would jack up electricity bills for rooftop solar owners to double or triple what they are now. In addition to cutting the “net metering” credit that solar users get paid when they sell their power back to the grid, the CPUC is also proposing a $57 monthly fee for people who install solar.
There is no free lunch.
And California certainly isn't an anomaly or the exception, this is the inevitable outcome.
At some point, solar panels which you considered to be an asset but in reality are a liability to the rest of society, will become a liability to the owner. There will be no market to sell solar back during daylight hours, and prices will be so high to buy it back in the dark it will be cost prohibitive. Then add in fees such as the above, as utilities are forced to acknowledge the true costs that intermittent download onto the grid.
As long as you include all of these inevitable consequences into the budget for installing solar panels, then carry on.

My sister lives in the Sierra Nevadas of California. Set up a solar system that feeds back into the grid. When everything works its great. Heavyvsnow storm at Christmas took down the grid. 30000 customers without power some for two weeks. Sister down for 13 days the thing is they couldn't even use their own solar power because of the way everything is set up. Imagine 2 weeks without power here we'd all be dead.

[Guest]

No the “woke” would be dead
We would be inconvenienced
Chuck has eluded to that problem
Because of the back feeding into grid panels cannot be used for emergency backup, too bad

[wrongway]

No the “woke” would be dead
We would be inconvenienced
Chuck has eluded to that problem
Because of the back feeding into grid panels cannot be used for emergency backup, too bad

All the engineers both social and electrical couldn't possibly come up with some sort of solution whereby one could use their own equipment for their own personal use now could they...

[burnt]

All the engineers both social and electrical couldn't possibly come up with some sort of solution whereby one could use their own equipment for their own personal use now could they...

The question you raise shows perfectly why the feed in grid tie was nothing but a huge subsidy to the solar or wind producer.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Regarding grid scale battery storage. I just read a rebuttal of the Tanton report, about the costs of electrifying the US economy using renewables. Keeping all existing hydro, nuclear, and biomass.

https://blog.friendsofscience.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Cost-of-Net-Zero-Electrification-of-the-USA-1.pdf

Some noteworthy points.

The cost of US$433 trillion is
equivalent to over 20 times the US 2019 GDP. It would cost every adult (18 year
and over) a total of US$1.7 million.

30 days battery storage would be required to replace all fossil fuels with renewable generation. That is much lower than the 3 months I have been quoting based on local feild installations of solar powered chemical injection pumps. But this also is based on only 2 years of hourly data( 2019, 2020), so has no allowance for a 1 in 10, or one in 100 year wind or sun drought, it is based on a completely interconnected grid across the entire lower 48. That is 4 time zones that can send power ahead or back when the sun shines, virtually all of which is south of our northern latitude with extreme short days in winter. And is acknowledged as being exceedingly conservative.


Here is an interesting graph. Total solar and wind generation across all lower 48 US states for 2 years.
I've always assumed that if you cold connect a big enough area, and enough time zones, and added solar to wind, it would average out the peaks and valleys. This completely destroys my naivety. Look at the variability and extremes on this chart.