US Grid Battery Storage

[fjlip]

Well IF we are the future "fossils", coal is forever, good call China, for we are renewable?

As you know I HATE that term.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

They are short less productive days of course. But solar still works all winter when the sun is shining unlike your intermittent grass. And it works well in most months except December and January.

Except, unlike your intermittent generation which cannot affordably be stored at any useful scale, Hamloc's solar powered intermittent grass can be generated on the longest day of the year, and used on the shortest day of the year. Predictably, reliably, affordably.

Neighbor who hauls bales, says 1% mass loss per month with hay bales. Better than most batteries.

Don't even need to spend diesel to harvest and feed it, neighbors cows are out swath grazing all winter again this year.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Why not? When the sun is shining and solar panels are working why cant you use solar to charge EVs?

You ( singular) can easily install enough solar panels to(almost, credit to AB4, for pointing out that there aren't enough hours of generation to match the maximum charging rate) charge your EV on Dec 21st. And intall enough to have enough power left over to heat your home, cook your food, keep the lights on etc all at the same time on the shortest day of the year. As a result, on June 21st, you will have 100's of times more generation capacity than your demands require.

So as long it is only you ( singular) trying to sell that generation back to the grid, no problem. But if Hamloc and I and a few million of our closest friends all try to get in on the action, we may find that the grid no longer wants our electricity in June, which will have negative consequences on the payback time of the panels.

[Hamloc]

Why not? When the sun is shining and solar panels are working why cant you use solar to charge EVs?
I was getting around 18000 watts around noon on Dec 31st when the temperature was -30C. Well more than we we were using.

They are short less productive days of course. But solar still works all winter when the sun is shining unlike your intermittent grass. And it works well in most months except December and January.

You seem to spend a lot of time telling us how it doesn't work while those who have solar systems who actually know how much they can generate with a solar system in winter continue on our way while the arm chair naysayers spin their negative BS.

You didn’t read AB4’s post did you!?!?

[shtferbrains]

You ( singular) can easily install enough solar panels to(almost, credit to AB4, for pointing out that there aren't enough hours of generation to match the maximum charging rate) charge your EV on Dec 21st. And intall enough to have enough power left over to heat your home, cook your food, keep the lights on etc all at the same time on the shortest day of the year. As a result, on June 21st, you will have 100's of times more generation capacity than your demands require.

So as long it is only you ( singular) trying to sell that generation back to the grid, no problem. But if Hamloc and I and a few million of our closest friends all try to get in on the action, we may find that the grid no longer wants our electricity in June, which will have negative consequences on the payback time of the panels.

California has been in that situation for some time now but keep adding nee subsidized capacity because the shares are an easy sell to the woke folks who want to invest in a green future.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

California has been in that situation for some time now but keep adding nee subsidized capacity because the shares are an easy sell to the woke folks who want to invest in a green future.

Speaking of California, it seems they have finally belatedly accepted that they have reached the breaking point.
he new rule would cut the rate solar customers get for selling their excess energy by a fair chunk. The rate will decline to 3 to 4 cents per kilowatt-hour during most sunny hours of the day, down from 17 to 44 cents per kWh previously, according to estimates from Pol Lezcano, North America solar analyst at BloombergNEF.
in California. Its solar-heavy grid has an abundance of electricity during daylight hours but a steep drop once the sun sets. That creates strains. Hawaii, which saw furious growth in rooftop solar before getting rid of net metering in 2015, had to do so largely out of necessity—parts of its grid were overwhelmed by a surge of solar electricity generated during the day.
What does that do for your payback period Chuck?
In our climate and latitude with solar completely put of sync with demand, we would reach this breaking point at far lower penetrations than California did.

[farming101]

Never bank on policy. It has put the hurt on more than a few businesses

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Never bank on policy. It has put the hurt on more than a few businesses

True in all cases. But in this case the policy change was inevitable, right from the start it was obviously mathematically impossible for everyone to sell power to the grid when the sun shines, and take it back when it doesn't.
Our business plans are equally vulnerable with ethanol and biodiesel policies.

[chuckChuck]

So you don't think utilities with a smart grid will figure out a way to manage an excess of really cheap solar electricity?

Is that such a bad problem to have? Too much cheap electricity? Surely we can figure out what to do with it. Engineers around the world are working on that "problem" right now. Maybe it could be used to charge all those new EVs? Naw! it will never work.

Weren't you telling us solar was too expensive a few months ago and that's what is driving up the costs of electricity. Now there is too much in some places at the wrong time and its driving prices down?

In hot climates peak demand often occurs during the air conditioned hottest part of the day. Solar is a really good fit there.

It works pretty well here too as a grid tied supplementary system. I have first hand experience. Do you have a solar system with first hand experience? Or are you just an arm chair quarterback with an opinion? LOL

[AlbertaFarmer5]

You are getting really close to understanding this issue Chuck.
As you point out, California is a good fit for solar, with demand and supply being close to in phase. And it isn't working there, as we pointed out. Now try that in Alberta without all of the climate benefits California has.

And the engineers and power companies absolutely have a solution figured out. The price you will get paid to put solar into the grid will be negative. If you can figure out a way to get your solar power back into the grid after dark, you will make a fortune.