US Grid Battery Storage

[furrowtickler]

I won't beat this dead horse yet again today.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Chuck.

And on a positive note, I've found the perfect solution to solar energy storage, the energy production works exactly out of sync with the sun.

Saint Bernard dogs.

On the hottest part of a hot summer day, they can't even expend enough energy to lift their eyelids.

As it cools off at night, can run marathons.

And on a cold dark winter day/night, raring to go 24/7. Just need lots of them, and lots of treadmills.

My Alaskan Malemute is exactly that as well .

[AlbertaFarmer5]

My Alaskan Malemute is exactly that as well .

A high tech solution to a low tech problem.

[Hamloc]

The transmission and distribution charges along with the generation costs? Total cost per kwh delivered to your farm is what?

In Saskatchewan any kwh I produce up to what I use in a year I don't have to buy from Saskpower.

Looked up a couple of bills for you Chuck so you can understand.
For Feb. 2021. 2762 kwh used. $.0679 a kwh $187.54
Distribution charge……… $93.01
Transmission charge………. $88.48
Balancing pool allocation……. $6.77
Rate Riders……………………$6.99

For July 2021. 822 kwh used. $.0679 a kwh $55.81
Distribution charge………. $91.12
Transmission charge……….$83.95
Balancing pool allocation……… $ 2.02
Rate Rider……………. $4.07

As you can see lower use of kwh doesn’t affect Distribution and Transmission very much. Balancing pool allocation and rate rider I believe relate to compensation to certain companies over early shutdowns of coal plants but I could be wrong. Now I have no doubt Chuck that you will attack the way it is done in Alberta because it is not a crown corporation but the fact remains we are only payed the generation portion when selling solar into the grid and therefore under that scenario solar doesn’t make financial sense.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Looked up a couple of bills for you Chuck so you can understand.
For Feb. 2021. 2762 kwh used. $.0679 a kwh $187.54
Distribution charge……… $93.01
Transmission charge………. $88.48
Balancing pool allocation……. $6.77
Rate Riders……………………$6.99

For July 2021. 822 kwh used. $.0679 a kwh $55.81
Distribution charge………. $91.12
Transmission charge……….$83.95
Balancing pool allocation……… $ 2.02
Rate Rider……………. $4.07

As you can see lower use of kwh doesn’t affect Distribution and Transmission very much. Balancing pool allocation and rate rider I believe relate to compensation to certain companies over early shutdowns of coal plants but I could be wrong. Now I have no doubt Chuck that you will attack the way it is done in Alberta because it is not a crown corporation but the fact remains we are only payed the generation portion when selling solar into the grid and therefore under that scenario solar doesn’t make financial sense.

And given those numbers, the day that affordable storage becomes available, we won't be able to afford not to go off grid using solar and storage.
Unfortunately, that day doesn't seem to be getting any closer. And the incremental benefits of solar, while remaining on the grid with all ofthe fixed costs just doesn't work unless you have a very large seasonal job for that solar energy when and where it is being produced.

[chuckChuck]

Looked up a couple of bills for you Chuck so you can understand.
For Feb. 2021. 2762 kwh used. $.0679 a kwh $187.54
Distribution charge……… $93.01
Transmission charge………. $88.48
Balancing pool allocation……. $6.77
Rate Riders……………………$6.99

For July 2021. 822 kwh used. $.0679 a kwh $55.81
Distribution charge………. $91.12
Transmission charge……….$83.95
Balancing pool allocation……… $ 2.02
Rate Rider……………. $4.07

As you can see lower use of kwh doesn’t affect Distribution and Transmission very much. Balancing pool allocation and rate rider I believe relate to compensation to certain companies over early shutdowns of coal plants but I could be wrong. Now I have no doubt Chuck that you will attack the way it is done in Alberta because it is not a crown corporation but the fact remains we are only payed the generation portion when selling solar into the grid and therefore under that scenario solar doesn’t make financial sense.

In February with higher usage you paid all in .1325 cents a Kwh. In July with low usage you paid .2882 cents a kwh. Yikes!

In your more deregulated system your high usage rate is about the same as Saskatchewan farm rates year round. Your low rate usage in July is double. All because of how your system charges are structured.

In Saskatchewan all rates are reviewed and structured to cover the total system costs. Low volume users are not paying the full cost of the total system. The same could be said for low density far flung rural customers who are cross subsidized by other customers. I doubt Alberta farmers are covering their full costs of distribution and transmission either, but utilities would have to open their books to know for sure.

Both systems are based on political decisions.

And under your system solar is not as attractive because you still have pay transmission and distribution charges even when you generate all or most your own electricity from solar, gas or a diesel generator.

Solar at the utility scale is more attractive in Alberta and that is why you are seeing the largest solar farms in Canada being built.

When you criticize solar and wind you must think that utilities aren't planning for their intermittent production and making sure that there is enough back up to cover peak demand. I think they have this figured out unless you are thinking they don't know what they are doing?

[Hamloc]

In February with higher usage you paid all in .1325 cents a Kwh. In July with low usage you paid .2882 cents a kwh. Yikes!

In your more deregulated system your high usage rate is about the same as Saskatchewan farm rates year round. Your low rate usage in July is double. All because of how your system charges are structured.

In Saskatchewan all rates are reviewed and structured to cover the total system costs. Low volume users are not paying the full cost of the total system. The same could be said for low density far flung rural customers who are cross subsidized by other customers. I doubt Alberta farmers are covering their full costs of distribution and transmission either, but utilities would have to open their books to know for sure.

Both systems are based on political decisions.

And under your system solar is not as attractive because you still have pay transmission and distribution charges even when you generate all or most your own electricity from solar, gas or a diesel generator.

Solar at the utility scale is more attractive in Alberta and that is why you are seeing the largest solar farms in Canada being built.

When you criticize solar and wind you must think that utilities aren't planning for their intermittent production and making sure that there is enough back up to cover peak demand. I think they have this figured out unless you are thinking they don't know what they are doing?

It is not the people running the utilities that concern me, it is the people running government that concern me. People like Steven Guilbeault. They are the ones pushing for wind and solar as our electricity source and electric heat pumps to heat my house. In Alberta this morning where I live it is -33 with a -42 windchill and out of 2269 mwh of generation capacity Alberta’s wind turbines are pumping out a whopping 22 mwh of electricity. How many electric heat pumps will that run? I looked at the capacity factor for Alberta’s solar farms over the last 7 days it was an average of 3.4%. So no I don’t think governments know what they are doing!!! LOL!!!

[chuckChuck]

It is not the people running the utilities that concern me, it is the people running government that concern me. People like Steven Guilbeault. They are the ones pushing for wind and solar as our electricity source and electric heat pumps to heat my house. In Alberta this morning where I live it is -33 with a -42 windchill and out of 2269 mwh of generation capacity Alberta’s wind turbines are pumping out a whopping 22 mwh of electricity. How many electric heat pumps will that run? I looked at the capacity factor for Alberta’s solar farms over the last 7 days it was an average of 3.4%. So no I don’t think governments know what they are doing!!! LOL!!!

Do you really think politicians of any type would tolerate blackouts at minus 30C? Kenney and Moe are in charge of provinces with large wind and solar projects installed with more being built. Are they part of the problem or what?

Reliability is the top of the mind for all politicians and utilities.

Its going to be a step by step process that's not done all at once. Hydro, nuclear, gas, bio mass, geo thermal, cogeneration, wind, solar, tidal plus storage systems are all in the running for what the future will look like.

Heat pumps and net zero and high effciency houses are already being used to cut energy use.

[dmlfarmer]

It is important to note that the electrical grid in North America is interconnected for the most part. Second, electrical usage for cooling now exceeds electrical needs for heating throughout the us. Us brownouts are most common in summers when demand is highest and when solarenergy is most available. Smart Electricity producers are building solar to meet summer peak demand when additional power is most needed. Summer power exports are possible from canada in summer and we can import in winter when we need it.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=42915

[dmlfarmer]

Another question. Why do you only consider electrical energy storage as a massive battery bank consisting of chemical or rare mineral cells? There are other simpler, cheaper, and longer lasting existing technologies that could be implemented for storing excess generated reneweable electricity and which could release that energy when needed. Pumping water back up behind an existing dam for example. Or a gravity battery where by electrical energy is converted into potential energy in the lifting a weight up and when electrical energy is reguired the process is reversed and as gravity pulls weight down energy is created. A skysc****r sized builiding could store a lot of energy. We would not even have to build a skysc****r, we have mountains which could be utilized as the backbone of a gravity battery and weights either lifted vertically up a mountain side or could run up a train type track. We need less naysayers complaining about the impossibility of storing energy and more innovators looking at potential storage ideas that are economical and feasiable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_battery

[jazz]

Reliability is the top of the mind for all politicians and utilities.

.

No, any sensible politicians still left are waiting for the green scam to implode just like it did in EU, California, Ontario. Its the point where physics and fairy dust collide.

Please point us to the new hydro and nuke and biomass projects on the drawing board in Canada. Answer, there are none and none will ever be built again.