US Grid Battery Storage

[TOM4CWB]

Just bumping this post up, since chuck must have missed it the first time.

Well said. But that is not what our politicians are saying.
So, in your own words, what do you think is going to be our source of electricity when we achieve net zero?
Without contradicting yourself, or the NFU, or the environmentalists.

The Metaverse Is Already Here
Mark Zuckerberg’s new platform builds on the success of popular videogames.
WSJ Opinion: Simone Biles and Facebook's Mental Health Problem
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WSJ Opinion: Simone Biles and Facebook's Mental Health Problem
WSJ Opinion: Simone Biles and Facebook's Mental Health Problem
Wonder Land: With social media platforms like Facebook and Instagram, we have democratized neurosis. Images: Getty Images/Walt Disney via Everett Collection Composite: Mark Kelly

By Andy Kessler
Dec. 26, 2021 10:30 am ET

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00:00 / 02:43

1x

Are you ready to live in a 3D-navigable, socially connected, conscience-curving, carefree virtual world? Facebook ’s pursuit of this metaverse dream as its next platform is bold, though it may be like swapping out a car’s engine while it’s going 100 mph—hard to do without crashing. Look at Apple as it transitioned from computers to iPods and iPhones. Facebook even changed its name to Meta. “The dream was to feel present with the people we care about,” CEO Mark Zuckerberg explained. He also promised “immersive all-day experiences.” Facebook may need a new platform anyway if the Biden administration dismantles its current one in the name of antitrust.

This has been tried before. A virtual space called “Second Life” launched in 2003. You could buy digital property and clothes with real money and hang out with other blocky avatars. It was early days. Naysayers in Silicon Valley liked to say that “Second Life” was for those who didn’t have a first one.

2.4 Billion humans play in the Metaverse.... and what do they spend most of their time doing....

KILLING EACH OTHER!

Difficult not to extrapolate where this terminates...

GIANT FLASH... A NET ZERO CARBON WORLD THE RESULT!!!! 99.99999999 infinity % of the Universe... is already net zero carbon based... looks like this 'experiment' is about to terminate itself... Faith, Hope, and Love... do not appear to be where humanity is headed....

As the human instruction manual [Bible] predicts... the chances of the Bible's future predictions not being fulfilled...

99.99999999 infinity % of the Universe's net zero mass imploding into a black hole[Hell].

Difficult not to see this as the probable outcome!!!!

NET ZERO CARBON = TERMINATION OF CARBON BASED LIFEFORMS.

Cheers

[Hamloc]

It is important to note that the electrical grid in North America is interconnected for the most part. Second, electrical usage for cooling now exceeds electrical needs for heating throughout the us. Us brownouts are most common in summers when demand is highest and when solarenergy is most available. Smart Electricity producers are building solar to meet summer peak demand when additional power is most needed. Summer power exports are possible from canada in summer and we can import in winter when we need it.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=42915

Alberta has 3 export-import power lines. One to B.C., one to Montana and one to Saskatchewan. Each one has a maximum capacity of 600 megawatts. If all 3 were at maximum capacity it would provide between 15-20% of Alberta’s electrical needs, certainly helps but no where near a solution.

Hydro Quebec’s new line to Maine got shut down by voters in that State, it might not be as simple as you think!

[Hamloc]

Another question. Why do you only consider electrical energy storage as a massive battery bank consisting of chemical or rare mineral cells? There are other simpler, cheaper, and longer lasting existing technologies that could be implemented for storing excess generated reneweable electricity and which could release that energy when needed. Pumping water back up behind an existing dam for example. Or a gravity battery where by electrical energy is converted into potential energy in the lifting a weight up and when electrical energy is reguired the process is reversed and as gravity pulls weight down energy is created. A skysc****r sized builiding could store a lot of energy. We would not even have to build a skysc****r, we have mountains which could be utilized as the backbone of a gravity battery and weights either lifted vertically up a mountain side or could run up a train type track. We need less naysayers complaining about the impossibility of storing energy and more innovators looking at potential storage ideas that are economical and feasiable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_battery

“Excess generated renewable electricity”, this certainly isn’t a problem in the winter. This certainly could apply to generate electricity 24 hrs. a day from solar though in the summer.

[shtferbrains]

The interconnect to the US southwest so ee could buy thier cheap solar overproduction and sell them hydro during the afternoon would answer a lot of problems if you could send it down the line that far.

And had no NIMBY factor.

They are already over the duck curve with solar. They don't have enough when everyone comes home from work and turns on the air con and cooks supper. Sun goes down there early.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_curve

Remember Wiki is a socialist site now and is edited to reflect that.

[chuckChuck]

Just bumping this post up, since chuck must have missed it the first time.

Well said. But that is not what our politicians are saying.
So, in your own words, what do you think is going to be our source of electricity when we achieve net zero?
Without contradicting yourself, or the NFU, or the environmentalists.

Which politicians? Which environmental groups? They don't all have the same views on what needs to be done do they?

All of the above mentioned sources of electricity except for coal generation, which is on its way out in Canada. Plus carbon capture and storage for the remaining fossil fuel plants.

I am guessing of course because net zero is likely to be a relatively long way off and who knows what will happen.

[shtferbrains]

What difference does Canada make if China uses 4.2 billion tons of coal and has 20x Canada's use going up as new builds?

They arn't playing your game.

[Hamloc]

Which politicians? Which environmental groups? They don't all have the same views on what needs to be done do they?

All of the above mentioned sources of electricity except for coal generation, which is on its way out in Canada. Plus carbon capture and storage for the remaining fossil fuel plants.

I am guessing of course because net zero is likely to be a relatively long way off and who knows what will happen.

Environmental groups: Greenpeace, Sierra Club, Equiterre all push renewables as the answer, Equiterre being based in Quebec is one of the few that is accepting of Hydro. Politicians? Jagmeet Singh, Elizabeth May, Steven Guilbeault. Those are the first ones that come to my mind Chuck. Oh and I forgot the NFU.

[shtferbrains]

Don’t you get that warm and fuzzy feeling setting a good example for the rest of the world??

Sure, right up until they kick your ass!!!

Boy Scouts don't seem to get the respect they once did.

China doesn't understand the principle.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Chinook wind blew into Alberta yesterday. Went from 35 below a couple of days ago, to -25 yesterday morning, to plus 1 by 3:00 AM this morning here.
Wind production went from basically zero for the length of this cold spell, now most wind farms at or close to 100% capacity. Same as has been observed every winter that we have been observing the trend.
So at least that is predictable.
Unfortunately, my biggest energy needs are during the coldest weather. Stock waterers, heat tapes, block heaters, battery chargers, bin fans to freeze tough grain, plus, when we all switch to electric heat, the highest demands on generation by far will occur during the cold wind droughts, heating needs falling precipitously when the Chinook blows in.

This has occurred enough times during winter to assume it isn't random, but a reliable indicator.
Wind power production is exactly 180 degrees out of phase with consumption in winter in Alberta. Just like solar at our latitude in winter.May be completely different in other locations. And as pointed out above, solar is not going to be any help in the depths of winter.

[Hamloc]

Chinook wind blew into Alberta yesterday. Went from 35 below a couple of days ago, to -25 yesterday morning, to plus 1 by 3:00 AM this morning here.
Wind production went from basically zero for the length of this cold spell, now most wind farms at or close to 100% capacity. Same as has been observed every winter that we have been observing the trend.
So at least that is predictable.
Unfortunately, my biggest energy needs are during the coldest weather. Stock waterers, heat tapes, block heaters, battery chargers, bin fans to freeze tough grain, plus, when we all switch to electric heat, the highest demands on generation by far will occur during the cold wind droughts, heating needs falling precipitously when the Chinook blows in.

This has occurred enough times during winter to assume it isn't random, but a reliable indicator.
Wind power production is exactly 180 degrees out of phase with consumption in winter in Alberta. Just like solar at our latitude in winter.May be completely different in other locations. And as pointed out above, solar is not going to be any help in the depths of winter.

When I read press releases about a new solar production facility they always say to power so many homes. This is technically correct based on total yearly output but of in actual use of course it would over produce for that given number of houses during the day in the summer, under produce for the given number of houses during the day in the middle of winter and of course supply no electricity to any of the houses during the night in all seasons. To a great extent fake news. The new Travers facility being built in Lamond has contracted its electricity to Amazon. In the same CBC article it says “it’ll produce a sustainable source of energy for more than 150000 homes.” Further down in the article “Amazon, which has signed a deal to buy up to 400 MW of electricity from the project.” So which is it? Electricity for homes or so Amazon can greenwash its operations lol?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Our one day Chinook ran out of wind last night. High of -23 today. And predictably, wind power is down to almost nothing again. Just when we need the energy the most.

[chuckChuck]

Our one day Chinook ran out of wind last night. High of -23 today. And predictably, wind power is down to almost nothing again. Just when we need the energy the most.

So your power went off then?

Do you think the utilities just might have a plan for backup and base load when intermittents aren't producing?

What happens when they shut down a coal or gas plant for maintenance?

[jazz]

Its tiresome nuking the renewable unicorns every day.

I would listen to Bjorn who is the most sensible environmentalist on the planet. He woke up a decade ago but some are still at it buried in delusion.

[shtferbrains]

So your power went off then?

Do you think the utilities just might have a plan for backup and base load when intermittents aren't producing?

What happens when they shut down a coal or gas plant for maintenance?

They have some solar thermal plants that run on steam turbines like a gas plant and use some gas to fire it at start up and shut down. The gas works so well they just use it a lot of the time but it kind of blows the sales for greenwashing credibility.

Why don't we just try use the gas plants for baseload and use the intermittent to supply when the baseload can't handle it?

Or maybe that is what we are doing here today. Doesn't look good.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

More from Bjorn:

How much is a couple of minutes of electricity storage?

Not much

Every year in Germany, there are more than 5 days (120hr/7,320 minutes) with almost no wind, and every 10 years almost 8 days without wind (186hr/11,160minutes)

Puts it into perspective how inadequate the 1 minute of storage is.
And how expensive storage would be, in spite of Chuck's insistence that it is getting cheaper and that solar is the lowest cost.