US Grid Battery Storage

[AlbertaFarmer5]

So your power went off then?

Do you think the utilities just might have a plan for backup and base load when intermittents aren't producing?

What happens when they shut down a coal or gas plant for maintenance?

No, the power stayed on, just the bill went up, as the redundant generation capacity is more than enough. Because we haven't yet achieved net zero, as the politicians have pledged us to do. Then the power will go off when this happens.

And no, they don't have a plan under net zero, there is no back up and base load under that scenario.

Shutting down a coal or gas plant for maintenance is planned and scheduled months and years in advance. The sun goes behind a cloud or the wind dies down without notice. Sometimes it dies down for a year at a time as it just did throughout Europe. No forecaster forecast this to happen, with the resulting high energy prices.

[jazz]

LOL, what a clown show the climate cult is. Physics deniers every single one of them.

I hope their fruitless crusade is shattered into a thousand pieces.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

LOL, what a clown show the climate cult is. Physics deniers every single one of them.

I hope their fruitless crusade is shattered into a thousand pieces.

[ATTACH]9534[/ATTACH]

But at least they can claim that the science is settled, as they argue about whether Nuclear, Natural gas, burning wood chips, or hydro electric are green and renewable.

But we should definitely believe them when they state that the science is settled on global warming from CO2.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

So much for cheapest:

Because storing energy is horribly expensive. The Pacific Northwest National Laboratory in the US puts the “levelised’ cost of storing energy in large lithium battery installations (that is taking into account capital investment and running costs over the lifetime of an installation) at $336 (£260) per MWh. That is five times as much as the usual wholesale price of electricity – and we have to pay it on top on the cost of generating electricity in the first place.

[Hamloc]

So much for cheapest:

Because storing energy is horribly expensive. The Pacific Northwest National Laboratory in the US puts the “levelised’ cost of storing energy in large lithium battery installations (that is taking into account capital investment and running costs over the lifetime of an installation) at $336 (£260) per MWh. That is five times as much as the usual wholesale price of electricity – and we have to pay it on top on the cost of generating electricity in the first place.

That would be $336 USD = $427 CAD!

[chuckChuck]

As I said nobody is planning to use batteries to backup the entire supply so you guys can relax for awhile.

But already EVs are much more efficient and the electricity cheaper per km to operate than ICE cars.

Once the cost of purchasing an EV comes down the economics favour EVs.

A4s example show that they are a viable option in a cold climate. And the batteries and the winter operation will get better over time.

[jazz]

But already EVs are much more efficient and the electricity cheaper per km to operate than ICE cars.

Once the cost of purchasing an EV comes down the economics favour EVs.

Did you even read the thread? There are 10 yr old EVs selling for what a new ICE would cost. See any 20 yr old Prius or hybrids on the road? They have all dropped their batteries in the landfill a decade ago and sitting for scrap. I see 30 and 40 and 50 yr old ICE driving around all the time. We have ancient ICEs on the farm sit outside all year long and 10 minutes of TLC and they are up an running. Nobody in their right mind would ever try to have an old EV repaired off warranty.

If you have to squint and turn your head sideways to make EV math work, then you have no idea how to calculate life cycle efficiency so just stop.

[Hamloc]

As I said nobody is planning to use batteries to backup the entire supply so you guys can relax for awhile.

But already EVs are much more efficient and the electricity cheaper per km to operate than ICE cars.

Once the cost of purchasing an EV comes down the economics favour EVs.

A4s example show that they are a viable option in a cold climate. And the batteries and the winter operation will get better over time.

But as A4 pointed out you won’t be able to charge them with solar in the dead of winter in Alberta.

[chuckChuck]

But as A4 pointed out you won’t be able to charge them with solar in the dead of winter in Alberta.

Why not? When the sun is shining and solar panels are working why cant you use solar to charge EVs?
I was getting around 18000 watts around noon on Dec 31st when the temperature was -30C. Well more than we we were using.

They are short less productive days of course. But solar still works all winter when the sun is shining unlike your intermittent grass. And it works well in most months except December and January.

You seem to spend a lot of time telling us how it doesn't work while those who have solar systems who actually know how much they can generate with a solar system in winter continue on our way while the arm chair naysayers spin their negative BS.

[Guest]

LOL, what a clown show the climate cult is. Physics deniers every single one of them.

I hope their fruitless crusade is shattered into a thousand pieces.

[ATTACH]9534[/ATTACH]

shit, china treats coal as green , tell the climatards what they wanna hear
and its shipped outta the pristine BC port and mined in woke , pristine BC

[fjlip]

Well IF we are the future "fossils", coal is forever, good call China, for we are renewable?

As you know I HATE that term.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

They are short less productive days of course. But solar still works all winter when the sun is shining unlike your intermittent grass. And it works well in most months except December and January.

Except, unlike your intermittent generation which cannot affordably be stored at any useful scale, Hamloc's solar powered intermittent grass can be generated on the longest day of the year, and used on the shortest day of the year. Predictably, reliably, affordably.

Neighbor who hauls bales, says 1% mass loss per month with hay bales. Better than most batteries.

Don't even need to spend diesel to harvest and feed it, neighbors cows are out swath grazing all winter again this year.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Why not? When the sun is shining and solar panels are working why cant you use solar to charge EVs?

You ( singular) can easily install enough solar panels to(almost, credit to AB4, for pointing out that there aren't enough hours of generation to match the maximum charging rate) charge your EV on Dec 21st. And intall enough to have enough power left over to heat your home, cook your food, keep the lights on etc all at the same time on the shortest day of the year. As a result, on June 21st, you will have 100's of times more generation capacity than your demands require.

So as long it is only you ( singular) trying to sell that generation back to the grid, no problem. But if Hamloc and I and a few million of our closest friends all try to get in on the action, we may find that the grid no longer wants our electricity in June, which will have negative consequences on the payback time of the panels.

[Hamloc]

Why not? When the sun is shining and solar panels are working why cant you use solar to charge EVs?
I was getting around 18000 watts around noon on Dec 31st when the temperature was -30C. Well more than we we were using.

They are short less productive days of course. But solar still works all winter when the sun is shining unlike your intermittent grass. And it works well in most months except December and January.

You seem to spend a lot of time telling us how it doesn't work while those who have solar systems who actually know how much they can generate with a solar system in winter continue on our way while the arm chair naysayers spin their negative BS.

You didn’t read AB4’s post did you!?!?

[shtferbrains]

You ( singular) can easily install enough solar panels to(almost, credit to AB4, for pointing out that there aren't enough hours of generation to match the maximum charging rate) charge your EV on Dec 21st. And intall enough to have enough power left over to heat your home, cook your food, keep the lights on etc all at the same time on the shortest day of the year. As a result, on June 21st, you will have 100's of times more generation capacity than your demands require.

So as long it is only you ( singular) trying to sell that generation back to the grid, no problem. But if Hamloc and I and a few million of our closest friends all try to get in on the action, we may find that the grid no longer wants our electricity in June, which will have negative consequences on the payback time of the panels.

California has been in that situation for some time now but keep adding nee subsidized capacity because the shares are an easy sell to the woke folks who want to invest in a green future.